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PostPosted: 11 Feb 2017, 08:08 
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euryleia wrote:
lol trump is doing this because it was part of his campaign, and the countries he banned have been investigated by the obama administration to be hotbeds for terrorist activities (such as burning people alive, torture, persecution ect)
The misinformation is strong with this one.

Feel free to elaborate, perhaps with evidence this time instead of insults?


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PostPosted: 11 Feb 2017, 19:43 
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euryleia wrote:That law, the Visa Waiver Improvement and Terrorist Travel Prevention Act, put in place a system that ID'd and subjected travelers to and from these 7 countries to more questioning. According to the enforcing agency (USCIS), the law "establishes new eligibility requirements ... (but) do not bar travel to the U.S.. Instead, (those) do not meet the requirements must obtain a visa .... which generally includes an in-person interview at a U.S. Embassy or Consulate." Again, what Obama system did was not a ban, but ask more questions.
Source

Subsections: (a) "What are the new eligibility requirements for VWP travel?" and (b) "What do I do if I fall under one of the VWP travel restrictions under the new Act?"

(a) Identified the seven countries. (b) explained what's the process to mitigate (a) entrails.

* * *

DJT's men argued that the 9th should disregard the comments Trump made during the campaign. This EO has nothing to do with it. Instead, the court should read only within the "four corners of the document."

Trump, Sean Spicer, and Conway insisted the EO ban was "not a Muslim ban." Either they lied or you lied when you wrote "lol trump is doing this because it was part of his campaign."

Either way, the 9th sided with the states due to the EO's lack of legal and factual basis. Furthermore, if what you implied were true---i.e. what Trump did here was no different than Obama's iD of the 7 countries---then why the DoJ didn't bring that up? Answer could be: Either DoJ knew none of the relevant laws or they saw no correlation between the two acts.


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PostPosted: 11 Feb 2017, 20:58 
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Part of trump's campaign message was to protect our borders, this is a move to do that, regardless of what the 9th decided, so sorry, there are no lies here. While the move brought to question if it was a muslim ban, it stands to reason that it would preclude all immigration of muslims and his travel ban does no such thing, only suspending those in the US Refugee Admissions Program for 120 days, and obama's 7 for 90 days pending investigation. Furthermore, if there was no correlation between Obama's VWP then why did he chose those 7 countries and not any other? You do realize there are still 40 other countries that are majority muslim that are not effected by this order? If the DoJ failed to correlate the two, that's their problem.


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PostPosted: 11 Feb 2017, 22:36 
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Part of trump's campaign message was to protect our borders, this is a move to do that, regardless of what the 9th decided, so sorry, there are no lies here.
Trump's campaign rhetoric on protecting the border is a farce at best. "Build that wall" is now less than a physical, "beautiful" wall, but a bunch of sensors for stretches of miles, and a barb fence in some other parts. The EO did nothing of sort to contribute to the border, neither in physical form nor psychological form. Idiots are free to envision safety for the next four years if they wish. What the EO did was weaken the facade Trump's put on, as the 9th shot down the request.
While the move brought to question if it was a muslim ban, it stands to reason that it would preclude all immigration of muslims and his travel ban does no such thing, only suspending those in the US Refugee Admissions Program for 120 days, and obama's 7 for 90 days pending investigation.
If it was just about the refugee program, why did the WH's Bannon came out to contradict Homeland that the ban would include legal green card holders on their ways back from home visits? If your reading of the EO was so clear, what did Bannon miss?
Furthermore, if there was no correlation between Obama's VWP then why did he chose those 7 countries and not any other?
If you have to ask, then clearly you haven't been tracking the genesis of the dumb argument and the facts running contra to such dumb argument. Here we go:

1. VWP was established in 1987 by Congress as an acknowledgment of strong, mutual ties between Europe and the US. That program expanded to 38 countries, including JP and Australia. Israel is not on this list and so are NO OTHER Muslim-majority countries. Right here is where the BUT WHAT ABOUT OBAMA'S 7 argument starts to look knee-jerked.

2. VWP then got amended by the Bush WH post-9/11, mostly with technologies like machine-readable or biometric passports. The Bush admin also installed a new process that screened travelers of this program before they got to the US.

3. After Belgian and Paris attacks, the Obama admin signed the Visa Waiver Improvement and Terrorist Travel Prevention Act to address the security problems of Muslim travelers from Europe going to the Mid-East region to help or receive training from terror groups. The loop hole here is that these trained men could come into the US via Europe. There was NO explicit/implicit ban. Instead, anyone caught on the VWP registry traveling to the Mid-East since 2011 would have to answer specific questions applicable to their activities in the Mid-East, especially the 7 countries ID'd by both Congress and Obama.

Why these 7 and not the rest? Why not Pakistan, which exported the largest group of Sunni terrorists? Easy. These were the 7 countries where most of the terrorists in the Belgian and Parisian attacks went to get their training. THey didn't go to Pakistan, or Indonesia. Arguing that there are some "40 other countries" is a simple act of lacking in-depth knowledge on the 2015 terror geography. Really. It's that simple.
If the DoJ failed to correlate the two, that's their problem.
Stupid DoJ, failing to see that they had the smoking guns to prevail. They should have hired better lawyers, with background in video games and virtual reality so they can formulate stronger legal arguments.


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PostPosted: 14 Feb 2017, 18:25 
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Arty wrote: diz so whats your theory on why is trump going through with this ban?

eury whats your theory?


iam trying to form an opinion but i'd like to know every side of the story first
Time's up Arty. What're your answers.


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PostPosted: 14 Feb 2017, 19:01 
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euryleia wrote:
Arty wrote: diz so whats your theory on why is trump going through with this ban?

eury whats your theory?


iam trying to form an opinion but i'd like to know every side of the story first
Time's up Arty. What're your answers.
well, ive heard many theories. I'll list some of them off the top of my head

1) Trump hates everyone non white and uses his immigrant wife as a sex object to practice his hate (eury's theory)
2) Trump hates only muslims
3) Trump is scared of muslims
4) Trump actually hates jews and uses muslims to eventually destroy jews
5) The ban is just a diplomatic, recurring policy
6) Trump administration actually believes theres a an imminent threat coming from these countries sometime soon
7) Trump just wants to do what he had promised his voters: cut down on immigrants

oh fuck the theory are endless. I am tired.

I think that we overthink it. Trump is not a racist, theres no goal in this ban, theres no conspiracy, theres no target, no purpose. Trump just one day woke up and had an idea to put a restriction on immigration. Almost all decisions we make are like that. We need to stop assuming everything has a purpose and a plan, when in reality we just do shit spontaneously without any real evil intent to take over the world.

This is why I hate literature classes. Cuz language teachers take a pencil and make a big black dildo out of it. They take a little fucking sentence and tell you the exact intent the author had as if they knew the guy so well and they'd been sucking his dick for the last 200 years he'd been dead. To a literature cunt teacher, every word every sentence every story by any famous writer is supposed to have some big deep meaning.


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PostPosted: 14 Feb 2017, 19:05 
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#WordsMatter ?


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PostPosted: 14 Feb 2017, 19:28 
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euryleia wrote: #WordsMatter ?
no they dont

we highly exaggerate people's intelligence and ambition by assuming everything they say has mysterious intent and purpose

People are very complicated, chaotic, and very different from one another. When you combine more than one person in an equation, or a whole society, predicting or guessing someones intent is ludicrous, its retardation.

Nothing is more arrogant than to think you know someone. None of us met trump, or saw him in real life or talked to him, yet we all claim we know his inner self better than his wife just by watching a little bit of TV.

A lit professor telling you what some guy was thinking of when writing some dumb word 1000 years ago or a self proclaimed psychologist telling you what everyone is thinking or a libtard claiming he can tell a white supremacist just by looking at someones name are all the most delusional people we have in todays world


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PostPosted: 14 Feb 2017, 20:23 
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we highly exaggerate people's intelligence and ambition by assuming everything they say has mysterious intent and purpose
And the opposite is what? Pretend ppl don't do dog whistles? What planet and era do you live in to assume verbal/written messages aren't coded? Do you think digital technology is the only medium where 2nd or 3rd layer of communication can be encrypted?
People are very complicated, chaotic, and very different from one another. When you combine more than one person in an equation, or a whole society, predicting or guessing someones intent is ludicrous, its retardation.
You equate day to day life under normal circumstances to the office's day to day. I'd say any day at that level is anything but normal.
Nothing is more arrogant than to think you know someone. None of us met trump, or saw him in real life or talked to him, yet we all claim we know his inner self better than his wife just by watching a little bit of TV.
We don't have to meet Trump to know Trump. And if we meet someone every day and night of a lifetime, doesn't make us expert of that life. It's true that a life is complicated, but politics can go like this: I telegraph and message; next, will I act on it, or not? Trump said we will lock up and deport people. When ICE delivered a list of 600 people being detained over the weekend, do you think Trump was joking when he said, See? I delivered!
A lit professor telling you what some guy was thinking of when writing some dumb word 1000 years ago or a self proclaimed psychologist telling you what everyone is thinking or a libtard claiming he can tell a white supremacist just by looking at someones name are all the most delusional people we have in todays world
Why go that far? Literature can be right here, today, starting with the resignation letter of the NSA Flynn.

And we don't just look at the speaker's text. No. We stopped consider that as the ONLY source. In fact, literature since the 70s have been doing Audience's Reaction studies too.

So if you have someone proclaimed not to be white-supremacist in message, and we have groups of such declared excitement and fealty to that speaker---somewhere along away is your delusion tearing at the seams. Maggots don't grow out of substance they don't consider shit and fertile.


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