Marine Arena


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PostPosted: 15 Feb 2018, 13:46 
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Hi, i have been playing Ma recently again and i found some unbalanced issue's used to be a beta tester in teh gold old days(under kiwa, who is still a cunt but thats a different mather)


Marine's atm are at decent spot but 3 minerals for 1 single marine is very high for what they provide at early game there just a 45hp meat shield to protect ur range units specially when u play melee merc's cuz ull be mostly always all in trading.

and make morph marines 4 minerals when dying u see alot of ppl ignoring the upgrade for marines often (its called marine arena)

TIER 1 UNITS
1 any Tier 1 (range units) is too cost effiect for that they provide. specially combo'd with elite/hero play
-Tier 1 range needs a mineral buff from 4 to 5 for killing them
-Tier 1 unit upgrades need to be adjusted a litte they gain less from upgrade buys(Dmg mostly)

Spectre shoudlnt be able to learn Stun ability untill morph'd
Maurader shouldnt learn conc shell untill morph'd aswell



T2 units
ALL tier 2 units are under preforming of what they are suppose to do...

Roach/beetles/crawlers
regular roaches 7 mins for is very high for a plain t2 units should be maxed at 6 minerals
Beetles/crawls needs a adjustment from 10 to 9
Base regen for beetles burrowed is in very decent spot a little bit to high when beetles get a few armor ups and hp they start to shine
But they need to get less dmg upgrade from upgrades or base dmg lowerd they scale pretty good

Stalkers
Were to start on this subject...
Same as minerals as sugest for beetles from 7 to 6 and morphed 10 could be the same since intense mirco heavy unit which should be rewarded for killing them
-Stalkers tags should do good vs bio units, but the t1 units just outshine's stalkers atm
-Due to having splash not being effiect atm in the game, and that counts to a few other splash units


a general problem in MA atm is that tag are messed up, for bio/armord/air
i see multply games on on pubs, were people supposly be hardcountering getting farmed by there counter parts, which is endless cause of frustration and discussion

Elite merc's
We all know elite mercs excell for support offensive and defensive
currently all abilitys that u can buy for elite mercs are too good, they need a cost increase or effectiveness reduced for what they provide in general

1 that stands to much out and mostly every1 can agreee with it, that is medivac deploying units to quickly, which favord high mirco players, mirco players should have a advantage thats there skillcap and should be rewarding but. if u cant out manuveur it at all. by picking up quickly and deploying. except a few things can do okay against it, (ghost,yamato cannon) and last 1 is already iffy its easy to drop a medic under bc and do a trade.

so whats the solution to the medicvac remove abilitys in general for this unit, both are very minerals well spent and too good for what it cost

or less supply room in medicvac, or slight delay the deployment rate. specially high end games medic dont get punished for flying to enemy merc compound and drop to snipe it.

other remedy for this problem is make turrent range 1+ even in fog of war they are a detection unit but they wont detect shit with current range. which also cause endless commotion about merc compound sniping

Hero's Ghost
Great unit for what it suppose to do, kill hero and elite mercs
but he is too effective at it, seen ultimates get sniped with double ghost combo.
We are suppose to have ultimate sniper for that nova'

So reduce the effectiveness of snipe,energy regen of the ghost or lower max energy, Or lower snipe cost vs ultimates. ppl need to spent alot of minerals to get ultimate and extra gass to get 1 or make . and they are hardcounterd by 750 minerals in total, which isnt very rewarding for people going hero's and makes the game very unbalanced. ghosts will generate alot of casual kills aswell if bunched in army so

and mostly every1 uses ghosts and alot of ppl can agree with this subject i know ull always have haters...


i know people will flame and hate,

but postive or negative feedback is always welcome and this is to help improve the game/balance of MA

These are mostly concerned things atm ill make more posts in the future.

greetz Drk


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PostPosted: 16 Feb 2018, 00:03 
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Welcome back drkxfactr.

Very nice post with good balance concerns, most of them are legit and will comeback to you tomorr with a detailed answer.


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PostPosted: 16 Feb 2018, 01:01 
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thanks for your message. It is good to see old players back in ma :)

I thought i was the only one Dr, looks like not :D

I see you have many concern about the bounty of all unit. here are some good ideas, but i have to recall you you left ma some years ago, and it evolved ofc a lot during this time. Like the mariens were 2 bounty in the old past and etc...
And indeed things changed
marines bounty is more expensive but i believe all can trade them early, so at consequence people are rewarded in general more bounty over the game, leading to shorter game overall. Imo I or other player dont have time now to have +2h games.
Marines start low but they can usually pawn a lot in middle /late game.
t1.0 would maybe need to go to 5 bounty but i am worry about zergling, we cant put a 2.5 bounty :/.

I would like to remind you the counter circle works now differently. so thare are no biological bonus or whatever
see: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=246

For T2, we already boosted them a little bit 1 year ago. t2 are indeed not very good in general and needs to morph in t2.5. I think decraeasing bounty for t2 from 7 to 6 can be ok. But having the bountyfor all t2.5 at 10 is important (to be short all bounty are related to the time spawn, excepted some exception like air, and t1.0/t2.0 and this is important imo to keep that).
LAncers were at a while too good (such 1.5 year ago) with too much splash, maybe there is a thin line to boost them.

About elites,
last tourney showned they were very powerfull. In consequence they were nerfed a bit. You complain about medivac :O, you missed the medivac we knew 1 year ago! Basicly instant drop discharge, faster, and 1.5x more supply inside :D. ou cant imagine the pressurefrom some player ss got Raiden to have nerfed it like medivac is today! :D
Ghsot is indeed powerfull. I believe the EMP is a multitask ability for countering ez casting heroes and countering some energy based elites. EMP was 75 energy some years ago. now 50 with upgrade, maybe we could revert it. snipe is not always ez to make compared to old versions of marine arena. Phoenix counter better ultimate in general but y emp can help to remove energy and/ or shield


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PostPosted: 16 Feb 2018, 01:12 
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Battle.net ID: ExCaL#2981
Agreed T2 mercs underperforming
Medivac (which i love) needs a simple fix - make it more expensive. Simplez


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PostPosted: 16 Feb 2018, 15:14 
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Battle.net ID: xdrkxfactrx#2663
@dr lolotor


U can say hardcounter/soft counter in that thread, in the past the tags were balanced if u got counterd merc u had to move on to a different merc to counter player x

we used to had tags armord/bio/psyonic/air and all units were desiigned around those tags for game play but now its INSERT elite merc x and ur counter that was already not a actually counter becomes even more useless...

And for the snipe thing it does a base snape of 400/600 and 400% inc to hero's thats instant 2k dmg out putt. that it can snipe a lower tier hero yes im fine but EMP + snipe colo gone or thor that gets snipe'd instantly due to a ghost have a few dmg ups.

So i would suggest a nerf to ghost and thats Snipe ability from 400% to 150-200% he will still snipes elites very easy. and u forget EMP does 400 dmg to if ur unit has energy, which most hero's has so the ghost had the best of both worlds.

And the game is used to be about knowlegde of countering and adept, but if u can stick with T1 unmorpg units for 50 mins( scrims and premade games) and add Elite x and ull be fine....

i know the current overhaul of tag system is a mess and it will be a alot of work to adjust/fix

@excall
Well 200 or 350 minerals wont change the outcome but 1 medic with a good mirco player can change the balance/current game around. Tags vs counter tags needs to be more punishable

yesterday i had a game. i had maraiders vs maurders we just traded evenely mostly, i had all upgrades and dmg up and armor. he only had some dmg ups

Sad part is maraiders excell in stim and mirco back and forth chipping away units and relay on splash
But splash is pretty much nerfed into the ground on this version.
same counters for destroyers splash. when massed they are tanky but destroyers used to be a t3 merc to counter mech due to there splash, and they did semi okay vs bio units due to splash but maraider use to hardcounter and farm destroyers but due to tag maraiders get farmed hard by dessie's

And problem in my view is

u can adjust any tier merc now and think its good but if there tags arnt in effect for countering system every buff and debuff u add for later patches it will just imba the map more due to fact u working on falsely based numbers thats ur tags are correct, which they arnt.


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PostPosted: 18 Feb 2018, 23:09 
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Joined: 03 Jan 2017, 19:03
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drkxfactr wrote: Hi, i have been playing Ma recently again and i found some unbalanced issue's used to be a beta tester in teh gold old days(under kiwa, who is still a cunt but thats a different mather)


Marine's atm are at decent spot but 3 minerals for 1 single marine is very high for what they provide at early game there just a 45hp meat shield to protect ur range units specially when u play melee merc's cuz ull be mostly always all in trading.

and make morph marines 4 minerals when dying u see alot of ppl ignoring the upgrade for marines often (its called marine arena)

TIER 1 UNITS
1 any Tier 1 (range units) is too cost effiect for that they provide. specially combo'd with elite/hero play
-Tier 1 range needs a mineral buff from 4 to 5 for killing them
-Tier 1 unit upgrades need to be adjusted a litte they gain less from upgrade buys(Dmg mostly)

Spectre shoudlnt be able to learn Stun ability untill morph'd
Maurader shouldnt learn conc shell untill morph'd aswell



T2 units
ALL tier 2 units are under preforming of what they are suppose to do...

Roach/beetles/crawlers
regular roaches 7 mins for is very high for a plain t2 units should be maxed at 6 minerals
Beetles/crawls needs a adjustment from 10 to 9
Base regen for beetles burrowed is in very decent spot a little bit to high when beetles get a few armor ups and hp they start to shine
But they need to get less dmg upgrade from upgrades or base dmg lowerd they scale pretty good

Stalkers
Were to start on this subject...
Same as minerals as sugest for beetles from 7 to 6 and morphed 10 could be the same since intense mirco heavy unit which should be rewarded for killing them
-Stalkers tags should do good vs bio units, but the t1 units just outshine's stalkers atm
-Due to having splash not being effiect atm in the game, and that counts to a few other splash units


a general problem in MA atm is that tag are messed up, for bio/armord/air
i see multply games on on pubs, were people supposly be hardcountering getting farmed by there counter parts, which is endless cause of frustration and discussion

Elite merc's
We all know elite mercs excell for support offensive and defensive
currently all abilitys that u can buy for elite mercs are too good, they need a cost increase or effectiveness reduced for what they provide in general

1 that stands to much out and mostly every1 can agreee with it, that is medivac deploying units to quickly, which favord high mirco players, mirco players should have a advantage thats there skillcap and should be rewarding but. if u cant out manuveur it at all. by picking up quickly and deploying. except a few things can do okay against it, (ghost,yamato cannon) and last 1 is already iffy its easy to drop a medic under bc and do a trade.

so whats the solution to the medicvac remove abilitys in general for this unit, both are very minerals well spent and too good for what it cost

or less supply room in medicvac, or slight delay the deployment rate. specially high end games medic dont get punished for flying to enemy merc compound and drop to snipe it.

other remedy for this problem is make turrent range 1+ even in fog of war they are a detection unit but they wont detect shit with current range. which also cause endless commotion about merc compound sniping

Hero's Ghost
Great unit for what it suppose to do, kill hero and elite mercs
but he is too effective at it, seen ultimates get sniped with double ghost combo.
We are suppose to have ultimate sniper for that nova'

So reduce the effectiveness of snipe,energy regen of the ghost or lower max energy, Or lower snipe cost vs ultimates. ppl need to spent alot of minerals to get ultimate and extra gass to get 1 or make . and they are hardcounterd by 750 minerals in total, which isnt very rewarding for people going hero's and makes the game very unbalanced. ghosts will generate alot of casual kills aswell if bunched in army so

and mostly every1 uses ghosts and alot of ppl can agree with this subject i know ull always have haters...


i know people will flame and hate,

but postive or negative feedback is always welcome and this is to help improve the game/balance of MA

These are mostly concerned things atm ill make more posts in the future.

greetz Drk


Considering the overall balance you wrote:

First of all wb to the game again and thank you for your input.
I agree with most of the suggestions you wrote about, specially about marine bounty and Elites.

Marines giving 3 bounty is something that we might change with the next big MA update, like i said i agree with that because early game having so many options to farm against marines (Elites, Heroes), this is giving a nice early boost to the players who can use good an elite or hero, making able the 2k-3k feed sometimes in less than 10 minutes.
This is something we want to fix in order to give the chance for all the players ingame to turn it in their team's favour, with the required skill ofc.

Elite Upgrades:
When thomulf added elite upgrades, it was a nice thing to do in order to boost elite usage, but these upgrades were strong enough and giving 200 minerals was nothing compared to what they are giving back in return.
A few months ago we balanced nerfed these elite upgrades and most of this balance was focused into seperating the upgrades into a certain role.
Still this was not enough as it seems the farming possibilities of some elites, exceed a lot of their original cost + upgrade cost.
We will include a balance fix for this in the upcoming big MA update.

Medivac...where to start about this, thomulf boosted medivac in order to make it useable but the outcome was really something so imba and OP like nothing else in MA.
Being able to load more than 100+ units (first medivac buff) and drop em all in less than half second made a lot of players to choose medivac as their n1 favourite unit and build up all their tactics based on this unit.
Even thomulf after sometime seeing how strong medivac became, was trying to find a way to balance this by changing the layout of the side merc cliff, cuz this was the most common usage of medivac, to snipe merc compounds fast and force a savior usage from the enemy players.
When i took over, i had players telling me to nerf medivac by a lot, still i left it there for some more time, but after a tournament we had 1 year ago, i took the decision to nerf it and introduce a new ability.
But still we see medivac being OP and a very strong unit for its 150 cost, even 200 wont do a big difference.
We will apply a balance change for medi, what this balance change will be, well we will write all the changes before the big MA update for all the players to see and give feedback before the map goes live.


T1-T2 mercs, for sure we will do something about that in order to have better early balance, gj for bringing this up.

The counter tags are different from what they used to be in early MA.
We try to keep it simple without having the players to look up for what unit is psionic or biological, that's why a hardcounter button is added on each mercenary telling which units is hardcountering without the need to search for unit tags.
We are going to test one by one all the counters again to make sure everything works as it should and if there's a bug somewhere we will find it for sure and apply a fix for it.


About Ghost Hero:
Yes this is correct, we want to see Nova being used against ultimate heroes instead of x2 ghosts, so this is something we will change in order to see it happening, same like a phoenix lifting ultimate heroes.

Dont worry about flaming or hating, you provided some good feedback and that is the most important thing which counts.

Thank you.


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