Marine Arena


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PostPosted: 01 Aug 2018, 22:11 
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Someone in BETA team want shorter games?

You do understand, whatever you put first in list will also get voted the most in a majority of games.

There's also the elimination of growing naturally which now will be even shorter, more teams will fight over mid when SD hits.

Cause of imbalances and farming capabilities in certain games where unnatural feeding happens some teams will have an easier time to hold mid hindering the possibility for others to catch up. Teams that perhabs are less skilled end up winning which unfortunately also occurs today.

I also think this update if implemented will continue making it harder for seasoned single players to join a random game unless joining with a partner.

I think it's a bad idea.


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PostPosted: 02 Aug 2018, 10:45 
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DraX wrote:
There's also the elimination of growing naturally which now will be even shorter, more teams will fight over mid when SD hits.

Cause of imbalances and farming capabilities in certain games where unnatural feeding happens some teams will have an easier time to hold mid hindering the possibility for others to catch up. Teams that perhabs are less skilled end up winning which unfortunately also occurs today.

I also think this update if implemented will continue making it harder for seasoned single players to join a random game unless joining with a partner.

I think it's a bad idea.


SD adds new sniping techniques so wiping out a stronger team earlier is now an option.
If a player is out of position you could medi drop their base for example and snipe them! Waiting for SD @ 60 often means teams are too behind to do this by that point if they are already behind.


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PostPosted: 02 Aug 2018, 13:27 
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I think it's great if we can make long games a bit shorter. But if SD is the solution I'm more confused about.


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PostPosted: 03 Aug 2018, 13:16 
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I agree with Drax. To me 60 minutes is a good number (often gives u a pretty smooth army to go into sd with both heroes and rines). Just like drax said its not uncommon for pub players to get a big lead through other pub players but with sd currently being at 60 min allows for a lot of time to fight back and counterplay (for example sniping their heroes). At 30 or even 45 you get much more easily rushed down, not to mention this punishes mid game hero play (imagine going ht after merc and then getting rushed down by reavers/melee at 30/45). At 60 u can usually get a solid army though. Besides i think 60 minutes is a very pleasurable time length since shorter than that doesnt really give u access to the late game upgrades (also gets harder to afford the sentries/tanks/double gh with nukes/other heroes) which are skill intensive and very fullfilling to play. Winning with just +9 attack mercs is not.
Imo if u would want shorter but still satisfying games you would have to rework the bounty/progression system entirely

I definitely think that sd should occur within 10 mins if there are only 2 teams though by default (no voting required).


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PostPosted: 03 Aug 2018, 15:53 
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+1 eyyo all very good points.

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PostPosted: 03 Aug 2018, 22:17 
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Not really, suggestions come from everyone and we discuss to see the outcome first and then moving on to public forum post for further feedback.

The difference between 60 min and 45 is small, like most of the times a game is already decided during that timeline. But in case its not decided still there is not a very big change compared to 30 mins SD which is half.

Having a 10 minute SD when 2 teams left can be good and bad at the same time, since this can imbalance the game and turn it towards the most feeded team very easy. Therefore will eliminate the possibility of a comeback since not much can be done in 10 minutes, even for smaller bounty differences (3-4k).
So like this, we are clearly favoring the strongest team and in most games the scenario will be very hard to change having only 10 minutes time, the team can easily just camp and wait for these 10 minutes to pass, just like some teams do even for higher durations. (20+ minutes).

Giving the option for a faster game by not a big difference its a good way to remove this long camping, but at the same time make possible the option for a comeback if only 2 teams left during 20+ minutes.
Shorter games by not a big difference can be good, just some balance changes are required (Not big changes) before implementing this.


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PostPosted: 04 Aug 2018, 12:48 
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@raiden
For someone who likes going ht those 15 minutes to get your marines up are a very big deal. I know though that 45 minutes have been experimented with on mar and seen promising results in the pre scene. However for the reasons stated above i dont think 45 minutes should be the standard format in pubs. Even though this may sound a bit strange, maybe we could place a 45 minute option at the bottom or something since the top position appears to be heavily favoured.

When it comes to 2 teams standing i think that 10 min sd is completely fine. If there are 2 teams left, the team that is behind shouldnt be able to feed from anyone else anyways so they shouldnt be able to come back bounty wise until sd. Sd can be won from behind by outplaying the opponent with heroes and ellites but if they are even too far behind for that i honestly think its just time to call it and start over. It shouldnt be a thing where 1 team has twice the bounty after having dominated the early game to then wait 40 minutes, have their 1-2k advantage basicly taken away from them because the enemies just wait and buy countering mercs without having to ever engage in a fight.
So the current system does 1. punish the team going early mercs, not rewarding them for playing well early game and 2. causes people to have towait for sometimes 40 minutes afk.

If you want to give the unfavoured team more of a fighting chance, just buff heroes (especially the more punishing and high skill one, namely ht) and make it harder for people to just A click their army into someone (even though they have slight-moderate bounty lead) and force them to actually outplay the enemies with their own hero/ghost micro.


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PostPosted: 04 Aug 2018, 13:18 
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i think if base defence was nerfed we wouldnt need earlier sd because its the base defences that increase the game time to unecessary lengths. its just that waiting 30 min because you cant break the base defence is making people angry.

yet again i think eyyo has made very good points, specially about heroes needing a buff and reward high skill play more

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PostPosted: 04 Aug 2018, 14:43 
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Heroes are already a strong unit which is able to become a game changer, many players dont like and expressed their complains about heroes being so strong, and we are not going to "Buff Heroes more", just to reduce the game length, which will cause bigger snowballs that what already the game has.
Buffing heroes is not the way to go, they actually need a different game mechanic which is something i am already have been thinkink about.

Marine Arena had passed the test having 45 minutes SD during the first years, and this showed to be a very good amount of time, which gives both a chance for a comeback and making the game length shorter.

When 2 teams left indeed there's no other players to feed, but knowing that in 10 minutes SD will occour, the feeded team will just camp with tanks, sentries etc. (thats a very usual think), and they will wait for 10 minutes to pass. Having a 10 min SD if only 2 teams left during 20 minutes of game time, has a big difference compared to 45 min SD, which the other team can use that time and try to turn the game.
If a hero is buffed in a way to turn a 4k bounty difference in just 10 minutes having only 1 enemy team or being able to feed more than what SD gives (100 minerals every 20 seconds), imagine what this hero would be able to do early game when there's 3 enemy teams to get feed from.

Still this is on discussion level, but will move into testing ground and we will see how things are before moving in implementing this to a public level.


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PostPosted: 04 Aug 2018, 14:57 
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Latest changes on base defenses are a clear nerf, still are so strong to a point when a player cannot break them? (Spine crawler doesnt have any splash dmg and photon cannon lost -20 base dmg, plus half of its health can be taken out with 1 EMP from Ghost Hero).

We want to avoid another base defense nerf if its not necessary, so far we havent heard anything about base defenses still being that strong to a point which a player prefers to camp 20-30 minutes instead. I think Savior is always the reason why players prefer to camp and not give any feed at all.


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