Marine Arena


It is currently 18 Aug 2018, 10:24

All times are UTC




Post new topic  Reply to topic  [ 46 posts ]  Go to page Previous 1 2 3 4 5 Next
Author Message
PostPosted: 04 Aug 2018, 21:53 
Offline
Beta Tester
Beta Tester

Joined: 04 Jan 2017, 21:03
Posts: 132
1st: Nice to see so much discussion on this thread.

2nd, As there was already a lot of discussion between gonor, raiden and eyyo with a tendency to go offtopic, I would like to express here my opinion about reducing SD, and then go back to the main question.

Personally, i am not a big fan of this further change and here are the reasons why:

-You cannot compare very popular Desert (direct) strike with ma. One is very low micro (DS) while ma is the inverse and then is closer to ladder considering that fact, so DS is the best thing to play relax while watching TV for exemple :). A nice game of DS is about 30 min, while 1h is already pretty long. The reason is that in 30 min you can reach most of the upgrades, strategies, and units possible to win the game. Actually marine arena needs 60 min to allow you to get an ultimate in a decent strategy. Excepted someone going fast ultimate (which can be very risky in case of lost) or someone beeing overfeeded, you never see an ultimate before that 55-60 min mark. Even marines starts to be fully upgraded around 35-40 min when used in marine tech strategy, but rarely before 50-55 min when not primary teched.

-A good game needs also this 1h to be a good game since you need this time to explore the maximum of possibilities and strategies to try to reverse the flow of the game. I rarely got a feeling of good game before 55-60 min. 40-50 min game were often frustrating.

So with the current game mechanics I dont see a 30 min SD beeing a good move at all.
45 min SD might work with some big modifications which can lead to more snowball or imbalances
The modification beeing to give more bounty for units in general and/or every 10 min. that would allow you to access to the most advanced units and/or strategies at 45 min rather than at 30, with a risk also of increasing snowball effect.

Having 2 saviors is also a problem. I guess just having 1 savior in 45 min game would be needed also. Too many use it for feeding purpose. But also there are many way to force savior (medi drop or marine drop).

Btw the Fluffy's idea can be nice, SD starting when only 2 team remain should short the game. No need to camp in base for 30 min until SD finally starts!


Top
   
PostPosted: 04 Aug 2018, 22:29 
Offline
Newcomer
Newcomer

Joined: 04 Jan 2017, 11:04
Posts: 504
saviors are meant for feeding though. they are meant to scare people since people know other people will use them to get feed. thats the point of baiting out saviors

_________________
+1 anything crow says because he is right about everything




Errare humanum est, ignoscere divinum
Vero=best mod.
Vero4admin
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFE6qQ3ySXE


Top
   
PostPosted: 04 Aug 2018, 22:41 
Offline
Newcomer
Newcomer

Joined: 23 Apr 2018, 12:34
Posts: 30
Battle.net ID: Eyyo#21790
+1 lolo and gustav
I do not like the concept of 1 sav though, being someone that occasionally solo queues, just having 1 sav against a melee noob that makes rushing ur base his one dedication in life with a 0% wr teammate is quite frustrating... ^^
I've never been bothered with people having 2 savs and find it quite nice to have comfort in your base, also an element of skill with baiting things into it (or do the kontz sav dt blink - wp wp) and also seeing through these baits, scanning for them etc


Top
   
PostPosted: 04 Aug 2018, 23:39 
Offline
Game Developer
Game Developer
User avatar

Joined: 03 Jan 2017, 19:03
Posts: 227
@Dr
When direct strike was mentioned ? :)
Direct strike has nothing to do with Marine Arena, neither having shorter game duration is related to any way. Is a totally different game which just requires unit knowledge without unit control, while MA requires both.

Indeed some changes need to take place (balance related) for 45 min SD to come, but not big ones since the time difference is not big from 60 min.

Once again, 10 min SD doesn't guarantee a shorter game duration, for pubs there's higher chances to get a shorter duration with 10 min after 2 teams, (But removing a comeback possibility by a lot) while in a higher lvl game with more experienced players, many times we saw SD occuring and 3 out of 4 teams were still alive (sometimes even all 4 teams).

I know we all used to the 60 min minimum SD, but 45 is possible to make it work without changing a lot of things, the game will remain and be the same and the most important, less game duration will lead into more games.


Top
   
PostPosted: 05 Aug 2018, 00:09 
Offline
Newcomer
Newcomer

Joined: 04 Jan 2017, 11:04
Posts: 504
more games = good?
thats simply not true.

better games = good.
if more games equals good then just give everyone 20k minerals right from the start so the games can end in 5 minutes every time or remove saviors completely.

_________________
+1 anything crow says because he is right about everything




Errare humanum est, ignoscere divinum
Vero=best mod.
Vero4admin
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFE6qQ3ySXE


Top
   
PostPosted: 05 Aug 2018, 01:47 
Offline
Newcomer
Newcomer
User avatar

Joined: 02 Nov 2017, 18:25
Posts: 69
Battle.net ID: Nvidia#2240
If the point is to make ppl working all the day able to play more game by reducing the time i agree its not good. More games, ok, but not more bad games. Its before all, a game. And the quality should be a priority than the number (you guys agree with this). Personnally, i dont face that much this situation where you camp 30 minutes. You are talking of this like if it was the common end, its not. If you reduce time to sd DONT put it the first option, because we all know whats gonna heppen, its like if you put 4v4 first mode option.

_________________
Lou tempo passo, passo lou ben.


Top
   
PostPosted: 05 Aug 2018, 06:08 
Offline
Beta Tester
Beta Tester

Joined: 06 Jan 2017, 18:07
Posts: 65
Just no, at first i thought this is a joke cus its retarded it had to be a joke, like this suggestion cant be for real ? are u trying ruin what is the left of the game cus this would be how u do it


Top
   
PostPosted: 05 Aug 2018, 07:04 
Offline
Beta Tester
Beta Tester

Joined: 06 Jan 2017, 18:07
Posts: 65
What i dont understand is where is these changes coming from. i have not once seen a post that asks for this. and i think its very big mistake to change this in the first place. if you are so set on making games shorter. even though the average pub takes about 25 min even when solo. Set bounty on the radartowers again in SD. instead of this nonsense. like all your doing atm is pretty mutch just loggin into MAR and see what vincent is doing. was this not what u guys went rage over while back ? :P

all in all super bad idea pubs are allrdy to short. lobbies toooo long. there is many things that need fixing but this aint one so i dont understand why u guys spend time on pointless things that is allrdy working instead of using ur energy on other things that clearly needs fixing, i dont get u guys at all


Top
   
PostPosted: 05 Aug 2018, 10:28 
Offline
Site Technician

Joined: 08 Jan 2017, 04:48
Posts: 15
Raiden wrote: Not really, suggestions come from everyone and we discuss to see the outcome first and then moving on to public forum post for further feedback.

The difference between 60 min and 45 is small, like most of the times a game is already decided during that timeline. But in case its not decided still there is not a very big change compared to 30 mins SD which is half.

Having a 10 minute SD when 2 teams left can be good and bad at the same time, since this can imbalance the game and turn it towards the most feeded team very easy. Therefore will eliminate the possibility of a comeback since not much can be done in 10 minutes, even for smaller bounty differences (3-4k).
So like this, we are clearly favoring the strongest team and in most games the scenario will be very hard to change having only 10 minutes time, the team can easily just camp and wait for these 10 minutes to pass, just like some teams do even for higher durations. (20+ minutes).

Giving the option for a faster game by not a big difference its a good way to remove this long camping, but at the same time make possible the option for a comeback if only 2 teams left during 20+ minutes.
Shorter games by not a big difference can be good, just some balance changes are required (Not big changes) before implementing this.
################################################

You're saying suggestions comes from everyone, they can only come from BETA players as I never heard from anyone in the community EVER that perhabs decreasing the time until SD could be a good idea.

I also noticed in your reply you've already revealed to be favoring this change. As far as I can see no one in the thread shares any arguments why it would be good. Actually you're the only one using words like "good" and arguments why it's not bad.

By you raiden:

- The difference between 60 min and 45 is small
- Shorter games by not a big difference can be good
- But in case its not decided still there is not a very big change compared to 30 mins SD which is half.
-Giving the option for a faster game by not a big difference its a good way to remove this long camping

So why do you offer a change of something that doesn't really need any fixing?

Don't you feel there are more important issues with the map?

The only good thing would be for an SD enforcement taking place after only 2 teams left in the arena. But it shouldn't affect games who voted no SD.


Top
   
PostPosted: 05 Aug 2018, 10:45 
Offline
Beta Tester
Beta Tester

Joined: 06 Jan 2017, 18:07
Posts: 65
################################################

You're saying suggestions comes from everyone, they can only come from BETA players as I never heard from anyone in the community EVER that perhabs decreasing the time until SD could be a good idea.

I also noticed in your reply you've already revealed to be favoring this change. As far as I can see no one in the thread shares any arguments why it would be good. Actually you're the only one using words like "good" and arguments why it's not bad.

By you raiden:

- The difference between 60 min and 45 is small
- Shorter games by not a big difference can be good
- But in case its not decided still there is not a very big change compared to 30 mins SD which is half.
-Giving the option for a faster game by not a big difference its a good way to remove this long camping

So why do you offer a change of something that doesn't really need any fixing?

Don't you feel there are more important issues with the map?

The only good thing would be for an SD enforcement taking place after only 2 teams left in the arena. But it shouldn't affect games who voted no SD.
[/quote]


Well you are not wrong :o


Top
   
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic  Reply to topic  [ 46 posts ]  Go to page Previous 1 2 3 4 5 Next

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Limited
Theme Created by HOLLYSMOKE
Theme updated to phpBB 3.1.3 by KamijouTouma