Marine Arena


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PostPosted: 05 Aug 2018, 10:55 
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Battle.net ID: Eyyo#21790
To be fair though drax, i've heard the request of shorter sd time (45 min) from grim and other pre players on mar.

But i dont think anyone has found the need for that in pubs. As i stated earlier:
To me 60 minutes is a good number (often gives u a pretty smooth army to go into sd with both heroes and rines). Just like drax said its not uncommon for pub players to get a big lead through other pub players but with sd currently being at 60 min allows for a lot of time to fight back and counterplay (for example sniping their heroes). At 30 or even 45 you get much more easily rushed down, not to mention this punishes mid game hero play (imagine going ht after merc and then getting rushed down by reavers/melee at 30/45). At 60 u can usually get a solid army though. Besides i think 60 minutes is a very pleasurable time length since shorter than that doesnt really give u access to the late game upgrades (also gets harder to afford the sentries/tanks/double gh with nukes/other heroes) which are skill intensive and very fullfilling to play. Winning with just +9 attack mercs is not.
Imo if u would want shorter but still satisfying games you would have to rework the bounty/progression system entirely


I dont think raiden has adressed this enough and just like gustav said, its about game quality not quantity. 2 hour pres are regarded higher than 20 min pub stomps for a reason. If i play a lot of games in a day the first 30 min starts to feel a bit like a grind because that is the part that tends to be the same. Its the late game that is fun where you can play around with one or several heroes, flex with your game knowledge to utilize a wide amount of tactics and units to counter the opponent. Reducing the game time just makes it less common to reach these later stages of the game where MA really shines. And again, 45 minutes for pres might be fine, idc if u wanna put it as an option really but just dont make it the first one and thus the standard pub format.

And i still dont fully understand what raiden has against the 10 minute sd after teams are standing.

If there are 2 teams left, the team that is behind shouldnt be able to feed from anyone else anyways so they shouldnt be able to come back bounty wise until sd. Sd can be won from behind by outplaying the opponent with heroes and ellites but if they are even too far behind for that i honestly think its just time to call it and start over. It shouldnt be a thing where 1 team has twice the bounty after having dominated the early game to then wait 40 minutes, have their 1-2k advantage basicly taken away from them because the enemies just wait and buy countering mercs without having to ever engage in a fight.
So the current system does 1. punish the team going early mercs, not rewarding them for playing well early game and 2. causes people to have towait for sometimes 40 minutes afk.


Dont feel like you really addressed this. You want people to be able to come back without anyone to feed on but you dont want to buff heroes which is supposed to be the way to outplay someone. Honestly i cant think of anyone that likes having to wait 40 minutes in base. Coming back with 4x10 min money is silly, dont think anyone enjoys it. But do i understand you correctly if i say that you would rather drag out the game for 40 minutes and destroy the significance of the first 20 min bounty difference (which 2.5k to all players do) instead of just letting the players fight it out right away. I dont see how you want the team that is 4k under are going to come back in 1v1 without being able to out play with heroes other than throwing a ton of money at everyone, screwing over the the team that played well. You want to reduce the game time of normal games, cutting the best part but you dont want to cut the part where 2 teams have to wait for 40 minutes...?

Apologies for the artanis level text wall (all praise our meme lord) but i feel like a lot of the points got overlooked and wasnt adressed properly.


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PostPosted: 05 Aug 2018, 11:42 
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Ok, thank you all for your feedback.

Changes like this that might come to the game, we first want to show them in public forum for everyone to know and then after having the required feedback we will proceed as needed.


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PostPosted: 05 Aug 2018, 15:06 
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+1 eyyo. would be nice if raiden replied to your part where you said heroes are the way to come back and the way to outplay someone

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PostPosted: 06 Aug 2018, 00:37 
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This answer is about hero buffs and 2 teams SD.
@eyoo
I am pretty sure that waiting in base 40 minutes is not something that is happening often, its mostly a unique case scenario. If at 20 mins all other teams left or got destroyed, the game offers many counter tactics to fight turtle/camping players. (Nukes, medivac, siege tanks and more). Unless if the player that is camping is way behind (more than 5k) so he cannot fight back the enemy units and camps.
In that case, a good hero play can still earn some feed, before SD occurs (25+ minutes time)
(I am talking about public games)
About 10 min SD if 2 teams left, i see that is just not possible in 10 minutes to turn a difference bigger than 4k, (I am not talking about a pro player against a new one, while even a pro player might have issues if there's camping). Allow me to use something you said: "When a team is getting the lead out of new players early game, having 60 min SD gives you the required time to fight back and turn the game." Yes, having 1 team to feed, doesn't mean its not possible with good hero play and using counter tactics to turn the game or earn some good feed and catch up while having more than 20 minutes time till SD.
But having a 10 min SD when 2 teams, will not be good in case a team got fed a lot early game and both enemy teams left during 15-20. These 10 minutes simply will not be enough and the best option will be to quit and start over.
We don't want to change MA in a way that is impossible to do anything to fight back, that's the reason the game has all these counter tactics, and we looking to add more.

Hero buff in order to comeback or turn the game in just 10 minutes...again i say, nothing is stopping a player from taking these buffed heroes and use them early game. MA had an OP HT before, same for Infestor being very OP able to snowball in just 10 minutes time, and in about 20 mins, the infestor player had a lot of feed out of pubs.

Like i wrote in an earlier post, many times during public games an experienced player is playing against players which some might have experience and others might have zero.
So in order to keep proper balance, we must be very careful about the buffs that take place on a hero. Current heroes if used good they can still earn a lot of feed out of pubs, just without snowballing very big and making the difference impossible to catch up even for a good player.
But we know that even now, snowball does exists under certain scenarios, and this is what we want to remove as much as possible.

Thank you.


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PostPosted: 06 Aug 2018, 12:05 
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tl;dr

60 min is alrdy nothing, anything below is just plain ass retarded,

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PostPosted: 06 Aug 2018, 13:25 
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I dont understand why we need a 40min SD. If you want finish early you can go "fastest speed". If you dont want to wait for 60 min SD with campers in game go attack them.


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