Marine Arena


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PostPosted: 11 May 2018, 23:33 
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Hello everyone,

I'm new here, you may have played against me and my friend Phoenix (I recognize some of reccurent names here ^^)

And I'm here to talk about many points.

First of all I don't understant why infest and high templar gets countered that hard against a gohst. (carefull here. I understand why a gohst counter them.) but why can he use 2 emp in less than 0.1 sec to kill them.

The fact that he can snipe and remove their energy is (in my opinion) way enough. cause then your HT or infest are not worth the mineral you invested in.

But the fact that he can kill them form a very long distance (further than a feedback or a drain) amost instantaniously and there isn't much to do about this... except making a gohst and try to emp him first...

and there is nothing you can do to protect your infest or high templar from this kind of use of a gohst. except putting him out of range of the EMP (witch is extremly far and also mean that you won't be able to kill any unit with it).

A high templar or an infest demands 1 000 minerals of investissement to start earning money from it. (for the range, and damages) price of the infest or high templar excluded.

Where your ennemy only have to buy a gohst to counter you without question witch cost him 400 minerals

Thing is, how ever good you are at keeping it alive if he have a gohst and use the 2 ultra fast EMP you just can't get money from you hero.

In an other hand, I had to fight guys that made 3 hydras each (with attack speed upgrade).
And in that situation, snipe one of the 6 hydras don't make any difference and I had to abuse of the EMP to damage them all and be able to win (with 2 gohsts and 4 good EMPs)

so I don't think that removing the damage from the EMP is the key but definitively something to work about.


this being said,

I also wanted to talk about the drop merc marines.

I think it's a wonderfull thing that may be put at a lot of uses, like adding some mens to your low army cause many players attack you all the time, or correcting a bad surround for your troops, get a lone merc / hero.

It's a very good strategy card to have in your hand.

BUT many players only uses them to snipe merc building when you pulled most / all of your army with you. or even snipe your command center ! ...

This is just frustrating.

And I think that there is a nice (easy ? ) way to stop is to limit the merc marine drop to anywhere on the map except an ennemy base.


I also wanted to ask it it was normal for 2 gohsts to be more usefull, cheaper and effective than a nova (they also gove less money when they got killed) but I saw that an other post talked about it already. So if it's already discussed, no need to argue about it.


At last I wish to talk about the different upgraded marine spawn:

Tychus : I don't really know what is his purpose in life cause nobody plays him. I think he gets some splash damage (and attack speed ?) in exchange of range.

Raynor : He gets a bit of range and damage in exchange of attack speed.

double spawn : well alright.

Tosh : gets his HP in Shield and + 1 armor and + 1 shield armor. in exchange of ???? Maybe I missed something just please tell me :smile:


And I think we're done here. I'm really open to discussion, and won't just go like "need to remove marauders !"

I'm really pragmatic ^^



PS : My friend wants me to ask about the return of the tempest that he loved ^^

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PostPosted: 12 May 2018, 09:18 
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Hello Artanis, welcome to the forums.


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PostPosted: 12 May 2018, 11:27 
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About the protection of your HT, a medivac can be really usefull.
The Double ghost>Nova topic has allready been discussed, and I am pretty sure everyone think that either Nova is too weak or the ghosts are too strong.
I agree on the marine morphs, they all suck, tychus is just sad, even with normal range he would still not be strong. Only double spawn is viable, because, you know, extra rines.
IMO, heroes are too weak. Also a lot of the elites are not good enough. And temples, well I don't have to bring up that one.

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PostPosted: 12 May 2018, 11:34 
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As the one that probably plays ht the most i can say it sucks donkeydick but not because of ghosts. evading ghosts can be done with a medivac quite easily however its too easy to split vs the storm making ht only really usefull lategame where people either lag too much to split or when a lot of heroes and elites are in play so that they either dont have time to split because they focus on other things or because they want to kill a certain unit and try to force it (like lifting a dark archon with nix and then trying to kill it), then a storm can be really good.

heroes in general are super bad right now unfortunately, same with elites. temples and marines beat most stuff even when they are behind in bounty.


about nova i think she should just be removed. buff her and she will just kill everything but 2 ghosts can already do that. however i think 2 ghosts is more interesting to watch because you can split them up and do stuff. a buff that could be possible would be to make lash invisible. guess that would work.

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PostPosted: 12 May 2018, 12:02 
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Hi artanis, i guess i'll post my thoughts on the manner.
Ghost & emps:
Festor and especially ht are really strong heroes and when upgraded can single handedly kill armies with enough energy. The thing with snipe is that its good against heroes that rely on basic attacks like hk or collo and thor for example. Even if u dont kill a collo u can make it way less effective by forcing it to go back and forth, out of the snipe range rather than attacking the entire time. A ht on the other hand would just be able to walk into the sniping range, cast his storm and then go back again without losing any dps. Therefore in my opinion there has to be a way to instakill them and even though that is the case you still see ht being a strong hero.

As for countering this as a ht player its kinda like you said. U need to always keep track of where the enemy ghost is (either with or without an observer) and stay out of the emp range. Often you can actually sneak a few storms in here and there without dying even though it can be difficult at times.
The other option that i'm a fan of is the ht ghost u mentioned. I had quite some succes with that not too long ago. If u can neutralize the enemy ghost there army is often chanceless against your powerful ht so once you start getting better and better at ghost emp dueling you will se results since you more or less force the enemy player to play the game that you have practised (ghost v ghost) since if they dont have one, they lose.

And while that's hard and punishing i think that is just fine. Ht is a difficult unit to play and not all heroes have to be "easy and straight forward". So if you dont want to play the very punishing ht route, just dont, you have many options :)
But with enough skill ht is in my opinion not underpowered.

When it comes to marine drops i am actually a fan of them. It rewards early marine play more (which is traditionally weaker than heroes and ellite/merc early on) and adds more depth to the game. I also like that it always gives you a chancce against an overfed player in case they get hubris and dont pay attention. Playing around drops isnt that hard (unless a player has a massive bounty advantage with rines but then game is lost either way). Just leave a few units in base at all times, after a while u get the habit of doing that once you start moving out of your base.

When it comes to marine morphs i would actually want to see more options get more playtime. From what i know tosh doesnt have any downside, just like the double spawn, they are just an upgrade from the normal rines. While it should be said though i think some of the morphs (especially tosh) can be very underrated in sd scenarios where u are 2 teams waiting for sd and then having a single fight that decides the game.

Sorry for the somewhat lengthy post and again, welcome to the forums :D


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PostPosted: 12 May 2018, 15:48 
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Nice to see you here. Your buddy and you are both fine examples of friends evolving smoothly on a new map. I am sure that while u grind more experience u will find out more tricks to counter seemingly hard opponents. Keep it up and welcome to this forum.

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PostPosted: 12 May 2018, 16:05 
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Thanx for your answers,

Hello raiden.

You both said that a medivac will handle all my problems against gohsts. I dont see how.

Do you have some replays for me to look at ?

thing is nothing stops the gohst to kill the medivac and immediatly cast 2 EMPs where the medivac died. then your HT or infest didn't stand a chance either.

And I disagree with you on the fact that people split too easy against a storm. (I don't feel like we are playing agaisnt the same people xD ), but yeah high templar have some issues dealing with ravagers hybrids.... But ideally you don't go High Templar against hybrids x)

I usually do HT to handle people that go marines double spawn. Cause storm is strong against marines.

Even with temple zealots in front of them. Did you try devildog high templar against temple + marines?
it's very very effective. only thing that trouble it is the gohst twice EMP...

But I'm interested in your play with a medivac if you have any replay to send me I'll watch it out ;)


Hi Eyyo !

I DISAGREE !! x)))

Let me explain ^^

you said :
"A ht on the other hand would just be able to walk into the sniping range, cast his storm and then go back again without losing any dps."

And I think you misunderstanded my point here. I know gohst needs to do damage with an EMP. But holy not being able to insta kill a hero.

"there has to be a way to instakill them" =>> NO !!! pro tip, did you know your EMP damage shield and delete all energy of the hited targets? .

And where in a strategy game "instakill" is a viable balance for a unit ?

Yes I know we forgot some times but a high templar or an infest TOTALLY depends of energy.

One EMP on them means that you'll have to wait for storms in your base betting everything on your saviors.

The fact that a gohst have the hability to cancel all energy instantaniously is (logically) WAY enough.



Now let's talk about merc drop,

"it always gives you a chancce against an overfed player"
You don't need them in the base of your opponent to have that chance !!!!

It exists burrowed roached, medivacs that can do exactly the same things without dropping marines mercs.

you'll always have the options to exactly do that but your ennemy will have the opportunity to see it coming if he checks for it. making marines rains all over your opponents base isn't easy to see it coming ! (cause no clouds )

And honnestly it's very often the overfeed player witch will drop merc marines not the opposit (except if you try to snipe the command center...)

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PostPosted: 12 May 2018, 16:06 
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nice to see you here too platanix ;)

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PostPosted: 12 May 2018, 16:42 
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and if merc marines are a problem just leave some units in your base or get a planetary because as you said medivacs and burrowed units do the exact same thing

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Errare humanum est, ignoscere divinum
Vero=best mod.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFE6qQ3ySXE


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PostPosted: 12 May 2018, 16:43 
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yeah no problem or play against me and my friend I'll hunt your HT down ^^

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