I haven't been playing this game long but I feel one thing that would make it much better, skill-based, and strategic would be adding a scoreboard into the game that shows all players current amount of saviors, maybe just in the regular scoreboard to have an area indicating how many saviors a team has left.

I think the more available information that you have in a game means the more strategy involved. Being able to make decisions based off of information is what differentiates bad players from good players. If we could see the savior count it would allow decisions to be made based off of that information and thus would be a tool to further differentiate players skill levels and also would lead to better games.

How would it lead to better games? Because it would benefit more aggressive play, how many times have you had to sit for super long periods of time just because you have to play based on the ignorance of your opponents savior count? In my short time with the game the situation has come up multiple times. I think if you have to sit and play ignorant it leads to derpy situations that just last way longer than necessary.

Having one team who outplayed everyone in the game, eliminating and dominating 2 out of the 3 other teams, have to sit around and wait because they don't want to throw away an entire army to the team that didn't do anything all game is silly, you should be rewarded for dominating a game by not having to waste another half an hour against someone who did nothing all game but turtle and potentially has saviors. Why should they be allowed to get back into the game? If the team that played well knew the savior count they could play based on that, even if the other team had saviors left it would give the good team more knowledge to act.

This also changes how saviors are used, it makes them more precious and adds strategy when using savior, instead of just using it whenever you feel like it or for farm in some situations. The player who uses a savior will know the whole game knows that they used a savior, this will make a player think twice before using it. The early game would be a lot different with a lot of new strategies coming into play.

TL;DR - Make savior count visible to all players, it will make the game more skill based and add a lot more strategy. The game should have as little derp/luck factor as possible and adding in things that give players more information to base decisions off of is a good thing.

I have to disagree. It would make the game less skill based and less enjoyable for players. If everyone could see savior count, then the moment anyone used a savior that team would instantly be pressured out by every other team because they know that you had to use a savior and thus are low on army and probably a feed. Everyone is going to be looking to be the one that eats your yummy command centers and merc compounds for bounty. It's not a fun environment to play in when you have to announce to the other 6 players your vulnerability.

However, I do agree with something you said.



It's your responsibility as a player, exactly as it is in ladder, to be scouting to get information you can put to use. You have watchtowers, burrowing and cloaked units, scans, observers and general map presence which all help you know what is going on in the map and one of the things you need to know is how many saviors each team has and count them yourself.

Being able to scout and count saviors -is a skill.-

Could you please further explains the hypothetical situation in which it would make the game less skill based?

I mean, say top left pushes bot left early and they are out of saviors, even if the rest of the players try to flush him out then it will end up in them fighting each other and the player with no saviors might even be in a situation to come out on top. It would just add more strategy in getting out the saviors and then using that information to get your opponents out of position so you can come out on top.

Would I rather have a game where a player might be vulnerable and people attacking which would result in a more aggressive and fast paced game or would I like it where 80% of the game is turtling?

It's nearly impossible to keep a constant count on saviors throughout the game, if that's a skill then I don't think anyone possess it as it's not really something a player can constantly and reliably control. Implementing the savior board wouldn't take away from any of the other skills you mentioned, it would magnify them as the game would be more aggressive and fast which would make controlling towers and having good map control more valuable in getting good engagements. It would also give the player with better micro more of an advantage.

Ahh, Wargasm got there before me. Yes, scouting and map awareness is a skill that many of us should and do have.

The savior death animation is very unique. As it goes, many people I know can accurately keep track of saviors. Its only three numbers to remember. It also rewards map control (if you have more infulence/vision in one area of the map.)

hm..I agree with Mystic & Wargasm - wait...., Im not us-player, but I got an idear: What if your skilles/stats limited your saviors? silver 1 savior gold = 0?

Strongly Disagree. Teams that dont attack dont need to know savior information, not to mention changing the whole strategy and game. As soon as 1 team has 0 saviors they're on defense the whole game for fear of flanks, attacks, drops.

I don't see a reason what so ever to impart such information to everyone in game. If I eat a savior or two and I know a corner is down why does everyone else get that information, alternatively if i camp my base and see a savior used, I can just rine drop that person's CC or scan and find the attacking armies base and drop them. Both sets of information I should not have had.

I could expand more but we've discussed it at length on skype as well. I'm sure others will voice their opinion.

hi oops! just supplying sm points i tot of..

cons: say, team 1 is on defense; team 2 ate 2 sav, team 3 ate 2 savs; team 4 will immediately use this window to att team 1, thus getting all the kills with the knowlege tat all savs used up.

OR if all 3 teams are on par(after eating sav); they will fight over the spoil of war, thus actually lengthening the game, possibly making it easier for team 1 to survive. Becos, I will be watching the bounty board; whenever team1 start to gain bounty, i HAVE TO go to his base to sandwich his attacker cos i will be ard 1500 behind if i dont; so whoever made the first move is least likely to get the cc kill. every1 will be waiting for the others to make the first move..

pros: as you said might shorten the game if its 1v1.

maybe u all can test this out?

@OP: I'm not so sure that you're right in saying that more info implies more strategy, because as stated many times in this thread, what it does is it just murders the information-gathering aspect of strategy, of the game.

If it's more strategic to have more information, then why is it not strategic to remove fog of war completely? Because I'm pretty sure that almost everyone would agree, if not everyone: fog of war is a critical game element that does, in fact, add to strategy.

Yeah I'm with everyone else. There isn't much "scouting" involved in MA as is. This would just further remove it. It takes more skill to know when to be aggressive based on counting saviors used than looking at the scoreboard. Hell, I wouldn't be against getting rid of the scoreboard all together and force players to click on units to see upgrades. (course it wouldn't work for heroes)






Even if it is doable...ladder skill level =/= MA skill level
And that's without taking into account the players that don’t take ladder points seriously and just fuck around. It wouldn't work for MA banks either because they can be easily manipulated.

I agree with all the disagrees.

I just wanted to reiterate a point someone referred to earlier. One of the reasons a good player is distinguished from an ok player is the fact that they usually get map control, and then are able to (and indeed do so) count the saviors on every other corner.

It'd be better if there just was no saviors at all.

I think there was a savior count back in the day, we only kept it for a short time since players got ganged up on whenever they had few saviors.

You know which players are easy to feed off of, the ones who have used up their saviors, and as soon as that team runs out of them, everyone will be rushing in for the final kill.

Maybe create an in-game option to view the current savior count of all players for paying some minerals?

+!. thats what i was just thinking

+1 I was thinking that too, right before artyom.

Man, crayon should be a grand contributor.

We should make Crayon a beta. That idea was priceless.

Also, let the records now show that I was JUST thinking of that idea before Git.

Incidentally, Crayon is already a beta (but not a GC) :P

If you're going to allow that to be purchased, it should be at a heavy cost. That's some pretty powerful information right there, and you only need to see it once to know who you want to attempt to kill.

EDIT: forgot to mention, +1 for the username, I love Kpop.

I think 1,000 is the right number to purchase savior scoreboard.

that's right around what I thought was fair.