Marine Arena


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PostPosted: 01 Feb 2017, 08:47 
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I have seen the capability from other devs, both official and...not, to push out changes in a time that is vastly superior in pace to that of what we have seen currently. I don't find it unreasonable to compare, and whatever speed the dev wishes to take, I can only point out that the current rate is continuing to cause issue, it's not up to me to decide or demand, but rather observe and report, and I feel I have done that.
This is your telling that Raiden should hurry up and make the magic happens. You've seen devs doing that and I can think of two. OTM rushed his balances, Relic did the same. What happened after that? The scene became confusing and it became a merry-go-round of nerf/buff.

That was just as destructive. And I've seen this going back as far as Crayon when we fixed TZ, only to see Warps ran amok, then we nerfed it hard and it became Marai Arena. If you want to see a better outcome of changes, you better look at the whole structure as to why TZ played out powerfully during the tourney.

Notice NO TEAM got it from start. TZ became the go-to unit when marines became powerful enough to push in after them and kill. TZ is also powerful when everyone used projectile mercs. And by the time TZ got played, those players were already ahead. Examples: Day 2 game 1, Aya/Vincent already far ahead in bounty, took the TZ and crushed top left. Gymshark did the same when he got the wide lead.

So what do we have here? Not an OP unit, but a meta. Use medivac to have insta-spread and win. Use ravens for early harass so one can have lead. SHOULD one be in the lead, get the TZ to seal the deal.

I'll call TZ OP once I see everyone getting them at 10 mins and wreck face.


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PostPosted: 01 Feb 2017, 08:49 
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This discussion has little to do with my original post, I'd like to get back on point than discuss the effectiveness of temples and meta.


Last edited by Rageypoo on 01 Feb 2017, 08:51, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: 01 Feb 2017, 08:51 
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But this addressed your thesis:
I'd like to know what more than a few changes in the changelog has done to address the wishes the community in the last several months of development. Much of the glaring issue is the long distances between changes, and excuses made for doing so. .. Much of the glaring issue is the long distances between changes,
The reply to it is simple: Take it slow so it doesn't become a merry-go-round of nerf/buff.


By the way, can I split this off into its own thread and title it as something else but not a post-mortem of EU7? It's more of a gratuitous hit on Raiden and not really addressing the bigger thread's point: Unity.


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PostPosted: 01 Feb 2017, 08:53 
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euryleia wrote: By the way, can I split this off into its own thread and title it as something else but not a post-mortem of EU7? It's more of a gratuitous hit on Raiden and not really addressing the bigger thread's point: Which is Unity.


This was in response to what monty said and has context, if you feel it is a gratuitous hit (which explains your motivation for hitting back) then do what you want, I have said all I needed to say on the topic.


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PostPosted: 01 Feb 2017, 08:58 
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So you switched stance:
This discussion has little to do with my original post, I'd like to get back on point than discuss the effectiveness of temples and meta.
You said there were not enough changes since Raiden took the map to address the TZ. I called it Meta. You came around to this argument and I am glad. For that, with your permission, i will split.


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PostPosted: 01 Feb 2017, 09:01 
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euryleia wrote: So you switched stance:
This discussion has little to do with my original post, I'd like to get back on point than discuss the effectiveness of temples and meta.
You said there were not enough changes since Raiden took the map to address the TZ. I called it Meta. You came around to this argument and I am glad. For that, with your permission, i will split.


Sigh...

What stance do you think I have changed here? I stand by what I said in my OP, as I've said many times, go back and read it. I also said my post has context with what monty said and I think you're having trouble understanding that. I didn't ask for a post split.


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PostPosted: 01 Feb 2017, 09:10 
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Rageypoo wrote: This discussion has little to do with my original post, I'd like to get back on point than discuss the effectiveness of temples and meta.
Monty said unity is at the heart of the problem. You saw it differently. You elaborated at length (thank you) on this point by saying Raiden shouldn't take this long to address the map's imbalances. With that, I thought it warrants a thread of it's own. I apologize for not splitting it soon as I saw it. I wanted to be sure.


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PostPosted: 01 Feb 2017, 09:16 
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euryleia wrote:
Rageypoo wrote: This discussion has little to do with my original post, I'd like to get back on point than discuss the effectiveness of temples and meta.
Monty said unity is at the heart of the problem. You saw it differently. You elaborated at length (thank you) on this point by saying Raiden shouldn't take this long to address the map's imbalances. With that, I thought it warrants a thread of it's own. I apologize for not splitting it soon as I saw it. I wanted to be sure.


The topic was more to expand on one of Monty's points, that we need to respect all that has been done since raiden took over, and my point was to question and challenge what exactly has been done to warrant it. It was not to address map imbalances specifically.


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PostPosted: 01 Feb 2017, 09:22 
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Your thesis was akin to tell Raiden to hurry along with the changes and this was the meat of why:
As an observer, just to name a few, I see an outcry for:

Defined counter circles (and in doing so, direct balance to temples)
Fixes to the map to remove outdated triggers and code that are slowing the game down and making things like lings/warps so laggy.
Changes to medivac/raven dominance that base defenses barely handle, and armies that have little defensible measures to counter.
Monty's thread reflect my own thread for the fact that Raiden finally stepped back and let the hosts do what hosts do best. He could have tacked it on my thread but chose to make it his own. I thought your ideas and questions would deserve a stand-alone thread too.


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PostPosted: 01 Feb 2017, 09:26 
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euryleia wrote: So you switched stance:
This discussion has little to do with my original post, I'd like to get back on point than discuss the effectiveness of temples and meta.
You said there were not enough changes since Raiden took the map to address the TZ. I called it Meta. You came around to this argument and I am glad. For that, with your permission, i will split.


Every pre every team remaining after SD has at least 1 zealots if not 2. You don't have to be ahead to get them. I had games where I was behind, got TZ and won.
The reduction of dmg to 10 is simply to strong.


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