Marine Arena


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 Post subject: Re: Base Defenses
PostPosted: 22 May 2018, 17:24 
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Gonorstrom wrote: and you say base defence wouldnt be boring if all the guys in the game wanted to play with it?
(my statement here didn't apply on "classic marine arena" "normal speed" "60 min sudden death" games)
It's not about chosing to play with base defences. It's about choosing a different (strange?) game mode in order to face and do things different than in a "classic marine arena" "normal speed" "60 min sudden death". (like classic marine arena, fastest speed, no Sudden death)

And there are not many players interested in this kind of games.

I said that if you could choose in the lobby, the the different type of players would go their different type of MA.

And if this was possible to do so, will you still blame someone to go base defences in a map without sudden death ? (maybe he just wanna see if he can do the perfect defence)

Gonorstrom wrote: if everyone went base defence the game would never end
Well it would be in deed a very very loooooong game xDD

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 Post subject: Re: Base Defenses
PostPosted: 22 May 2018, 17:48 
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everyone agrees base defences are too strong except you it seems.

if thors had 20 range on their ground and air attack and oneshot everything while killing 50 units per attack that would be insanely op. instead of making a mode where you can go thors or a mode where thors are disabled you should fix the thors. do the same with base defences. the base defences are too strong and thus needs fixing. its not only about people liking it or not its about the fact its broken and takes absolutely zero skill to use to their maximum effect. any noob can just mass base defences and upgrades and easily delay 2 of the worlds best players by 30 minutes.

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 Post subject: Re: Base Defenses
PostPosted: 22 May 2018, 21:03 
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artanis i have 5 or 6 replays that i can upload with 4vs4 and no sd enabled.

all the same camping style , upgrading defense and wait for the other team to attack .

from those a games i won only one , and we was 4 players against 2 and we couldn't break the defense so easily.

after we pooled the one guy so he could upgrade his marines and with nukes and disable defense every time we got the win .

every other game i loss cause of this camping style game. cause you cant break this op defense

raiden remove from 3 tanks the one,to prevent the camping style, cause always 6 tanks was camping in the middle after sd .

now we have the same problem . THE CAMPING STYLE

if we have 4vs4 enabled, then remove no sd option or they can do crows idea.

always hf guys


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 Post subject: Re: Base Defenses
PostPosted: 22 May 2018, 22:52 
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Artanis wrote: Hello there.
First of all, I might surprise you all but I do agree on the one thing you said (don't be affraid I still disagree on all the other points you made. Wouldn't be funny otherwise xD ):

This kind of plays is indeed
Crow wrote: [...]just insanely annoying [...]
to break through.

But I don't think it is in need of a nerf. For 2 reasons :

- People who does that have to invest Tons of minerals in defences AND upgrades (for their defences.) witch delays their ground army from a very VERY large amount of upgrades. You seem to have insufficient understanding of the game to even understand this topic therefore i suggest you do refrain from contributing to it. (to point out what you can't seem to understand is that these players don't CARE and don't NEED their army anymore)

- It is usually played in no sudden death mode. witch is not the most popular one. And by nerfing this very specific strat only applyable in a specific mode, you will affect the standard game (even if it's not that much of a change). I am a big fan of non-sd mode but i prefer playing it skilled and not retarded, furthermore I am very well aware of the changes to the standard mode and these are very much intended

It might sound stupid or not relevant to you (I can get that) but if you do this kind of fixes once you've done it 3-4 times, all the little changes you made will end up affecting the game (and not only the no SD ones) Oh it is so nice of you to point that out, I am sure noone was aware of that, but just to be clear, the base defences used to me much weaker, but you know that aswell ofc


You might think : "Fuck this guy, he only disagree cause he uses this a lot." Not really, I would rather refer to what i wrote in my first paragraph
I did used it once or twice (like every other strat in the game (almost) to see his benefits and how people react to it. )
Thing is, it was in deed very funny to see the guy that rolled all over you the entire game sends army after army dying on your defences cause he is too dumb to understand that defences are not worth to die on. That is if you are against noobs; a good player will have to wait until sd and basically afk until then or if in non-sd mode will have to WASTE hours against this because the strength this strat has compared to the (non existing) skill it takes to execute is far out of proportion
And even back then it was not a viable strat. Cause YEAH you are a pain in the ass to kill for anyone in the game.
But by doing so you also doom your self to loose that same game. (cause defences can't kill bases.) And also defences have a max upgrade that is reachable way sooner than the max upgrades for units. witch means that at some points (even if your opponent don't think too hard and still apply the same strat as he did the entire game (like upgarding marines of merc) he will gets through. (maybe 2 hours later xD but he will ^^) "maybe two hours later but he will" that is exactly the point....for any highly skilled player it will take ages to break your noob strat, this is not fun for a player and simply very tedious to do, it is like if you would take another game lets say, dota/ league of legends, and make the final base towers oneshot everything that does not have fullbuild and maxlvl -> alltho the enemy team might already have won the game if they pushed so far, the loosers can sit back and make the other team farm for 30min until they can break the base. -> you would fix the base (if I may refer to my first paragraph again)

You are trying to nerf a play that cannot win the game. Therefore I'll be curious to see how this topic ends x)
and that is exactly why it has to be nerfed; noone deserves to be a pain in the ass if he CANNOT win the game, see another good option would be to kick anyone from the game who upgrades his base def too much according to your suggestion, right? since they can obviously not win the game anymore
I might suggest like a different thing to solve your problem :

Allow people that are not interested of a no sudden death marine arena to don't play it.
(witch will be not that easy to do)
I don't think people are that close to their stats (cause many players resets it quite often) but maybe by not loosing any rank points by leaving in the early game.
But it will create an other issue : if half players leave the game cause it's a no sudden dath one... It's no more the game player witch voted for wanted to do...
Maybe set the mode selectable in the lobby, then you could choose witch kind of MA you wanna play. (because it is true that 2-3 hours are a lot of time and if you only wanted to play a last 60 min SD marine arena, and gets trapped in a no SD... You might not get any fun of it)
I agree, let's change the whole game and while we are on it lets patch World of Warcraft too right? how about making star craft 3 while we are on it already? I am glad you already found one of the many flaws of your suggestion yourself so noone has to point that out.
Refund of the voting system, that's my contribution for this topic. :smile:
( Sry Devs I know my option isn't the easyest one xD )
I shall point out your main mistake again by refering to my first paragraph; THIS IS NOT, i repeat, NOT, only about non-sd mode (in which it is a major issue), it is very much about the normal game where if you won after 20min noobs can stall out the game for another 40, keep this in mind while making your clearly confused suggestions about changing/removing/doing whatever with non-sudden death mode

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 Post subject: Re: Base Defenses
PostPosted: 22 May 2018, 23:03 
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Gonorstrom wrote: or make base defence not give bounty when they kill stuff
This idea was really good imo. That or maybe give half points. The problem is when some camp for fun until sd or even worse without sd. And the dude can rebuild and rebuild becouse making money with defenses.

Turret should give money tho. And in same time it shouldn't be to hard for newbies to understand this too. But that's not a huge problem prob.


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 Post subject: Re: Base Defenses
PostPosted: 22 May 2018, 23:19 
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.... So much hate in your sentences Crow... I'm speachless (but all of this make sense from a league of legends player. "why don't you surrend at 20 don't you see you lost ? ")

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 Post subject: Re: Base Defenses
PostPosted: 23 May 2018, 00:29 
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I believe you are moving off topic and getting personal

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 Post subject: Re: Base Defenses
PostPosted: 23 May 2018, 00:56 
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crow i am speechless ,

this post was fantastic.

artanis there is no hate, just arguments that you may don't understand.

crow is a very nice guy. the only thing i hate on him is :

HE CAN ALWAYS SEES MY GHOSTS (WITHOUT SCAN OFC).

damn it
:x :lol: :smile: ;)

and artanis we all like changes to make the game better, but let them solve some other more

important problems (lag, base defenses, temple , banelings, air lag, ..........).

and again crow is a very nice guy and i think you get it wrong.

so have fun , your ideas are always welcome and be careful when you play against crow

he sees everything ;) :lol: :smile: 8-)


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 Post subject: Re: Base Defenses
PostPosted: 23 May 2018, 14:24 
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Just saw something you said last page "you are saying deimate, loki and illusive are noobs". I definitly am saying that because they are all 3 trash.

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 Post subject: Re: Base Defenses
PostPosted: 23 May 2018, 18:33 
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I agree with what Crow is proposing on the base defenses grinding scale. A small increase on the re-build cd would add more balance as well imo. I would suggest that damage should start grinding from a lower value though, since its wasted money and with the above nerfs it won't be too much trouble killing a canon for e.x. with a bit of micro.

In the case of no sd and when a player isn't good enough to counter his enemies thus deciding to turtle, indicating in the same time that he is diner food, there are ways of overcoming his defenses. A ghost can do miracles amongst many other technics. In addition, he will eventually step out and if not you got one less enemy to worry about. So turtling on a turtle is a good counter.

Most new players on about 50 - 100 games often stumble upon really good ones, getting forced to re-evaluate their gameplay. Imo its the experienced player obligation to show them that everything can be countered and nothing is for granted in MA.

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