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 Post subject: Next Update 2.24x
PostPosted: 09 Jul 2019, 23:28 
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Next update is about to go live within the next days.
All the changes are posted here first, for feedback and discussion.


Marines:

Tychus Morph:
Increased Base Weapon range from 4.25 to 4.5

Raynor Morph:
Reduced Base Weapon Attack speed from 1.2 to 1.16

Base Defenses:

Added 100% Armor Ignore on all Base Defense Structures. (PF Cannon already had 100% armor ignore)
Upgrade Base Defense Armor cost will be increased by +100 per level. (starts from 300, then 400, 500 etc.)

Spine Crawler (Zerg Defense)
Increased “Spine Crawler” attack speed (zerg defense) from 1.5 to 1

Missile Turret:
Increased base “Weapon Range” from 8 to 8.5
Increased the “Missile Turret Limit” per player from 3 to 4.

Mercenaries:

Temple Zealot:
Ultimate Heroes now “Ignore Hardened Shield” & they deal full damage to Temple Zealots.

Void Ray:
Removed 100% Armor Ignore from “Void Ray Main Weapon”.

Goliath:
Removed the 50% Armor Ignore for “Air Targets”.

Hunters/Hydralisk:
Frenzy Ability had 75% armor ignore, this is now removed from both “Hydralisk & Hunters”.

Elite Mercenaries:

Observer:
Added “Observation Mode” which increases “Detection Range” from 11 to 13.
While in “Observation Mode” the unit cannot move.
Increased Base Health from 50 to 200.
Reduced Base Shield Health from 250 to 100.
Reduced Shield Armor from 2 to 1.
Increased Life Armor from 1 to 2.

Oracle:
Increased “Revelation Ability” energy cost from 35 energy to 50.
Increased “Phase Shift Ability” energy cost from 35 to 75.

Banshee:
Increased “Missile Barrage Ability” damage scale from +5 to +10.

Medivac:
All Heroic units will use a cargo space of 8 slots when loaded in Medivac.
(Thor, Colossus & Ultralisk were already using 8 slots).
Increased the Energy Requirment to load a “Heroic Unit” from 25 to 50.
When Medivac is killed, units that are inside will lose 75% of their total health instead of 50%.
(Reasoning for this change was that when having high health units, the remaining ones after medivac was killed were still able to do good damage. This adds more of a "high risk" into medivac in case the unit is destroyed)

Heroes:

Heroic Upgrades:
For the Heroes that have the 2nd heroic upgrade cost being “350 minerals”, this will be reduced to 250.
Level 1 remains 150, just for level 2 is changing from 350 minerals to 250.
(Heroes being affected are: Phoenix, Hunter Killer, dark templar, Thor, Colossus, Ultralisk)

Colossus:
Colossus Stun no longer removes 25% of the unit's own shields, instead the ability just uses cooldown only as a cost.
Increased Colossus Stun ability cooldown from 45 seconds to 60.

Hunter Killer:
Fixed the “2nd Weapon Range Upgrade” cost which was 150 instead of 200.

Phoenix:
Fixed the “2nd Gravitic Drive Upgrade” cost which was 225 instead of 275.

Ultimate Heroes:

Tempest Ultimate Hero:
Increased Base AoE Fraction from 25% to 40%.
Increased Base AoE Radius from 0.6 to 0.7

Dark Archon Ultimate Hero:
Increase “Health Regeneration rate” from 10 to 20.
Reduced “Delay to start regenerating health” from 10 seconds to 5.
Increased “Maelstrom Ability” cooldown from 35 seconds to 60.

Archon Ultimate Hero:
Reduced “Health Regeneration Rate Delay” from 10 seconds to 5.

QueenFestor Ultimate Hero:
Increased “Health Regeneration Rate” from 5 to 15.
Reduced “Base Life Armor” from 4 to 3.

General Gameplay Changes:

Arena Shop:
Destroy “Base Defenses” price is now increased from 500 to 750.
Destroy “Base Defenses” will also take out “Missile Turrets”.

SD (Sudden Death):
All Arena Shop Abilities such as “Destroy Base defenses, Destroy Mercenary Compounds, Disable Marine Spawning” will be removed when SD occurs.

Infested Savior:
Added 100% Armor Ignore on Infested Savior’s main weapon.

Mercenary Compound location:
All mercenary compounds are now closer to the “Command Center” by 0.5 range.
This is a small difference not visible without knowing this change, but this took place in order to make all the 7 range Ultimate Heroes (Kerrigan, Odin, etc.) unable to attack the compound from the side high ground cliff.

Leaving Team:
When both players from a team quit the game, once the timer expires it will also kill all the units (Marines, Mercenaries, Elites or Heroes) along with “Command Center, Mercenary Compound & Missile Turrets”

Winning a Game:
When “Winning a game” and pressing the “Return to game” button, a new button has been added that once pressed, will show “Victory Screen” for the player. This has been added in order to avoid seeing “Games that were a win” to count as “Defeat” since the player had to quit the game from the main menu after selecting “return to game”.

Voting Screen:
Voting Screen now has 3 options for “Game Mode, Game Speed, and SD”.
The “Expert Speed” has been removed and the remaining options are the following:
Normal Speed, Fast Speed and Fastest Speed.
The 120 min SD has been removed and the remaining options are the following:
60 Min SD, 90 Min SD and No SD.

Voting Screen Fast Mode:
Fast mode will have 1 savior per player, 2 per team.
With this change we aim to make "Fast mode" to be clearly a "Faster way to play the game" since with less saviors, teams can be eliminated faster.

Elimination Mode:
Originally "Elimination mode" is present only when "Fast mode" is selected.
With the next update, elimination mode will be present for all the different game mode speeds, (Normal, Fast or Fastest).


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The following changes will not be in the next update, instead they are planned to go live after this update is implemented.


Air Mercenaries:

All Air mercenaries are about to change into a "Faster mass" but "weaker stats" in order for the air player to be able to get into the fight faster.
The spawning times for air mercenaries will change from 10 seconds to 7 seconds, and like this they will also have the right balance for "kill bounty reward" just like all the other mercenaries.

SD:

Elite Mercenary Shop:
Elite Mercenary Shop will remain available during SD for 5 minutes.
A timer will be visible that will show the remaining time until "Mercenary Shops" are destroyed.
Having a 5 minute window in order to purchase elites is a good time for all the remaining teams to use their strategies during that time.
After that, strongest team can win by keeping all the areas that give minerals and focusing only on these areas.
The current SD mode that's implemented is slightly light, by only removing infested savior and base defenses while having everything else still accessible.


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 Post subject: Re: Next Update 2.24x
PostPosted: 10 Jul 2019, 00:34 
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Joined: 27 Aug 2017, 09:57
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you cant be real with that sudden death change can you?

elite shop only available for 5 min in sd? thats some real nasty change right there.
You will remove so much strat variety and only letting a move win

Dont implement that SD change, it will be a crtical change to sd and make it so much more boring with no strat variety. For example Doomdrop, tank sentry to take mid/towers, oracles to kill ultimates, and corr for air or debuff and many more.

from 4/10 strat variety to 2/10 if u implement this

Gamesense will just not be usefull anymore because of no elites

IMO horrible change

(and i know this is for a change after this patch)


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 Post subject: Re: Next Update 2.24x
PostPosted: 10 Jul 2019, 17:56 
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Joined: 25 Feb 2019, 17:44
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So hunters are already bad and most of the players stopped using them but u still nerf them?
Colosus never had problems with losing shields for stun. No idea why u adress this when colo is unusable vs medium players due to to many counters.
Never felt that DA or Queen needs any health buff, but Archon is still bad even with the same change. These changes adress only first 2 heroes.
Removing destroy merc comp is limiting SD tactics and is bad imo
Air gets buffed from 2 sides. One by nerfing goli and 2 buffing air. Looks interesting but air might become to stronk. Need to see.

I really hate nerfing mercs. I for example play kinda good midgame but good players tend to rape me in SD. And that is good bc it adds another layer to the game and makes me learn new strats.
SD is not that common in pubs. It usually ends soon after SD starts but in premades this is the most interesting and skilled fase of the game.


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 Post subject: Re: Next Update 2.24x
PostPosted: 10 Jul 2019, 22:41 
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Joined: 08 Jan 2017, 12:00
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Porca Madonna


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 Post subject: Re: Next Update 2.24x
PostPosted: 10 Jul 2019, 23:23 
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Joined: 11 Nov 2017, 00:46
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Battle.net ID: ExCaL#2981
Replying to this in Sections:

Marines:
Both Tychus and raynor are worthless so....

Base Defence:
-Like the armour increase - stops pubs bm buying armour and makes games shorter so good overall.
-Don't like missile turret range increase or adding a 4th turret, they are already very very good against air. Air in the hands of a pub player is just complete and even skilled players struggle.
-Fine on armour ignore


Elites:

-like the oracle
-like the banshee
- like the obs (is like ladder)
- dislike the medi. Already said previously its one of the biggest skills in the game to pick up heroes in medi. Increasing energy cost PLUS making units more damaged upon death is a huge huge nerf where medi at the moment actually seems in a good spot. BAD.


Ultis:

- Tempest YES needs something
- Everything else (I agree with Kruger) whos asked for these changes and whats the reasoning?


GAMEPLAY CHANGES: LIKE EVERYTHING EXCEPT:

- Blow base defence increase. It should blow missile turrets. But now 750 when its 150 to remake a missile turret. WTF?

- SD Change (removing shops, destroying base and marine spawn removal) Awful suggestion. Will make games LONGER. Limits strat variety. just WHY

- MERC COMP LOCATION: Disagree. Both odin and kerri are underused and its super risky to go on cliff there. In addition, another nerf to air. Dislike.


NOW FOR THE BIGGEST DISAGREEMENT EVER ON A PATCH SUGGESTION:

- removing shop after 5 minutes :- where do u get this from? This will make games LONGER, remove loads of strats and reduce skill factor in game. This is by far the most shocking suggestion I have ever seen on a patch.

- Air rework. Air is already in a bad place due to many factors (the turret changes, the lack of blow base defence, the strength of corruptors etc etc). Pubs with air are complete feed, good players with air just about get by due to split control and microing back weakened units. This suggestion is a complete rework and im nervous about it but would be happy to test it on a test map before implementation if thats something that non betas are allowed to do.


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 Post subject: Re: Next Update 2.24x
PostPosted: 11 Jul 2019, 01:42 
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Posts: 359
First of all, the reason the changes are being posted here is to gather feedback BEFORE implementing anything.

So in case someone believes that all of these changes will be added, he is simply wrong and just rushed to conclusions.

The game's duration currently with SD is something that some might like, while others don't.
Current SD mechanic allows room to have games that can last over 2hours, and while this is something some players enjoy, for the general picture of the game is not good.
Players can simply choose (NO SD) and play for hours and hours, but SD needs to be SD, not SD but lets play for 1 more hour.

Everyone is free to comment and give feedback based on these changes, or any other change that comes to his mind, as long as its written in a good mannered way, because a lot of time is given in order to do update balance changes.

There's some units which require a bigger balance change, but because there's players that are enjoying these units (even if they are considered or being close to broken) I am trying to balance them without changing them completely.

Now to answer and give the reasons behind the changes that were quoted:

Destroy Base defense cost increase:
1 turret costs 150, but 3 turrets x6 players cost 2.7k minerals.
If destroy base defense was taking out 1 structure, yea sure np reducing the cost to 200 or 300, but clearly this ability takes out all turrets from all players, including any other "base defense structures" that were created.
Correct balance would be 1k at least, but even with 750 I see this seems like a lot while the numbers show the opposite.

Removing shop abilities in SD:
Current SD removes infested saviors and base defenses + marine drops.
This is a "light form of SD" and this is how we were referring to it even back on EU-5 when it was first implemented, a "light SD".
Clearly this light SD allows room for games to last much longer since almost all the strategies are there and available to the player, while the game should simply end within 10-20 maximum after SD occurs, at least that's what I want to achieve.

Medivac:
Like the written reason, having high health units gives less risk to even lose the medivac and doom drop an enemy base.
Changing the energy requirement or at least the remaining health after medivac is killed will clearly bring more fair battles.
Can keep the energy requirement the same, and change remaining health once medivac is killed.

Merc location:
Clearly attacking from the side cliff while the enemy doesn't have any saviors or even if the player has saviors a (scan + recall) can simply make the savior be wasted, is not fair.
When being on the side of an enemy's compound, scanning the Command Center area is something that most good players do all the time.
There were many complains about specific ultimates being able to attack compounds from side, where the enemy has to either scan, or buy observer, and these complains were also being mentioned like "a bug or a glitch".

Missile turret range + limit increase:
Since all compounds (along missile turrets) were moved +0.5 range closer to the CC, missile turret range had to be increased in order to be balanced against Air side attacks.
If the compounds were not moved, a buff on turret range was simply not needed, neither planned.

Air rework and Elite shop 5 minute availability:
Air doesn't have the correct balance for bounty and kill reward, (Spawns every 10 second, gives 14 bounty reward) and making air spawning every 7 seconds with the current values will lead to OP air mercenary situations.
Either its going to be weaker and spawn faster, or keep it the same and receive a buff where is needed in the next update.
Elite mercenary shop is again another way of reducing the game's duration when SD occurs, as well as making the SD not to be "so light".
But again these last 2 changes, were planned for a future update, and like all of the above changes nothing will be implemented without first gathering feedback, like its always been done before every update since months now.


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 Post subject: Re: Next Update 2.24x
PostPosted: 11 Jul 2019, 08:14 
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The marine changes are a step in the right direction but I don't think will make enough of a difference to make them viable. Double spawn is still the only option.

Interesting ideas on Missile turrets, would like to see how this turns out. Could be good!

Temple Zealots hardened shield being ignored by ultis is a cool idea but would have to test for balance.

Void ray change is un-needed IMO.

Goliath Nerf... These need a small buff not a nerf. NOT enthusiastic about this one at all!

Hunters/Hydra Nerf Totally uncalled for they are already almost useless in current meta.

Observer change looks interesting, see how it pans out.

Oracle change is great!

Banshee is not enough. People don't really use the barrage, giving them more attack speed and/or range could be handy to give them an elite sniping role???

Medivac change I'm OK with but maybe RIP doom drops.... sometimes the only way to break 2.5 hour games :D I guess it is removing some of the skill element of the game but I know a lot of players; myself included; struggle against medi hero play so I think this one may cause arguments. (When has medi changes never caused problems haha)

Colo isnt being used because of it's relatively expensive cost to be used as a farmer hero. changing the stun doesn't change this. Maybe think about slight splash buff again?

HK fine.

Nix fine.

Tempest buff is always good because they are pretty trash still.

DA was finally at a point where it felt kinda balanced (for an ulti) the Nerf on the Maelstrom will force players to be more cautious with the DA which is good. Also makes defending Mid from mutliple teams more challenging. Unsure of why a HP regen buff was added here?

Archon confusing buff but im sure you felt it was needed somehow.

Queen armour reduction but HP regen buff??? not sure what the aim is with this one.

destroy base def: Glad to see it's back but seems a little pricey but open to testing it and also just happy to have it back.

Arena shop abilities removed after SD is a good change IMO stops people just holding mid and starving the other players. Makes for a more action packed game.

Saviour buff on armour pen is good (y)

Merc compounds being moved out of the range of some ultis is a good change.

Leaving team change i see as a fairly neutral change

Winning a game change is a great feature requested by many for so long. Well done.

I got confused at the game type bit. So basically to play with 2 saviours each we must now pick normal mode?

Air mercs are OK as they are now, that's part of the trade off of getting air. Not sure how the new changes in the map will affect this though so maybe leave it as it is and then re look later?

Elite shops change NO NO NO NO :D I don't think a single person will agree with you on this one sorry :P

thanks for reading :) Thanks for continuing to work on this map <3


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 Post subject: Re: Next Update 2.24x
PostPosted: 11 Jul 2019, 12:04 
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Joined: 04 Jan 2017, 21:03
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Hey all

I exposed already this to Raiden but as the next update is also on table for public, THis is some of my comments about this patch.


-About reverting the missile turrets removability with “destroy base defense”. As you increased the price, that can be more fair, but at the same time if you offer the possibility to build an additional tower, that might be more painful in case of use of “destroy base defense”. So let see. But I see also that wont be usable in SD so that will save the towers alive when no savior can be used; so this is not bad.

-The cancelation of elites in SD is a big change. And this will be interesting to see. This will make a big difference between those who kept elites and those who lost them. But that might reduce the middle camping with 4 tanks and 4 sentries. I am more concerned about Viking/corruptors. You might not be able to counter air in endgame? For sure this change is pretty unpredictable on the outcome of the games. Particularly the lethal medivac drop might be reduced (or at least that might not be used too much).
-Void ray: They had always some ignore armor. It was 60% then 30% in the past. They might suck vs some units with this change, since they scale poorly in attack. (armor up > attack up). They need something in exchange.
-Medivac: you think increasing cargo space for hero will change something? I think more the energy cost to carry heroes might limit the strategy with spell casters. Increasing HP lose uppon medivac death is probably the last best think to balance medivac. But nerfing 2 spots at the same time seems a bit too much.
-Hunter/hydralysk: I am not sure it is good to remove armor ignore on frenzy. The damage given are not that high for frenzy spines and they worked mostly like a spell damage. If you remove that ability I think the abilty will be quite useless versus some armored units and will be close to a normal splash attack. At the moment hunters seems to me balanced with splash removal.
-Raynor Morph. This is a very small buff. I think they might need more love? Can you go to 1.1 or 1.0 attack speed at least? Even with that I am not sure they will be more played.

All the rest are good changes overall for me or at least this wont change dramaticly actual power of some units (like regeneration thing about ultimates)


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 Post subject: Re: Next Update 2.24x
PostPosted: 11 Jul 2019, 13:30 
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Joined: 04 Jan 2017, 07:54
Posts: 74
So many things to say ...
marines +1
base defense +1

mercenaries
-1 goli (they work against air only with a medivac, air player can dodge you till he gets XXX K bounty ahead and switch to temples and melt you) so another nerf to them to air will make them useless against air)
-1 hunters - nobody play them anymore so ... i think its already dead.
+1temples
+1 voids

Elite mercenaries
+1 all of them

Heroes
+1 Colo

Ultimates
+1 Tempest (is trash right now)
-1 DA (maybe we can try with 15 instead of 20)
-1 Queenfestor (same here, maybe 10?)

SD - bad ideea to destroy them after 5min, will be just a bunch of rines and mercs whooping eachother asses. If someone camp in the middle just throw 2 nukes and thats it.

Btw we all miss old ghost upgrades.


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 Post subject: Re: Next Update 2.24x
PostPosted: 11 Jul 2019, 17:21 
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Joined: 02 Aug 2017, 22:23
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Yeah.... maybe think about previous ghost upgrades?


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