Marine Arena


It is currently 21 Oct 2019, 12:13

All times are UTC




Post new topic  Reply to topic  [ 21 posts ]  Go to page Previous 1 2 3 Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Next Update 2.24x
PostPosted: 11 Jul 2019, 20:51 
Offline
Newcomer
Newcomer

Joined: 08 Jan 2017, 12:00
Posts: 148
Try to stop an ultra without oracles after sd.


Top
   
 Post subject: Re: Next Update 2.24x
PostPosted: 11 Jul 2019, 23:26 
Offline
Newcomer
Newcomer

Joined: 23 Apr 2018, 12:34
Posts: 288
Battle.net ID: Eyyo#21790
First of all i need to adress the goliath nerf which everyone is sleeping on. This might be the most drastic nerf i have ever seen on a unit and should not ever go live as goliaths wont counter air any more after this change.

The reason for this is splash fraction and armour mechanics. Goliaths have a splash fraction of 50% (while very high, it means that half the main damage is added to the sorrounding units as splash). With air being clumped up the vast majority of the damage dealt to them is splash damage, lets say every rocket hits 6 additional voidrays within its splash radius, that means the splash stands for 3/4ths of the dps. Due to armour scale being 50, a player on even bounty can get half as many armour ups as the enemy can get damage ups, on even bounty. Lets say enemy golis deal 40 damage, our voidrays have 20 armour. How it used to be is the main target gets hit for 20 and the 50% armour ignore allows for (40*50%)-(20*50%)= 10 splash damage per void ray. HOWEVER. If this change goes live and the armour penetration is removed, the splash damage would be 40*50% - 20 which is 0, or in MA's case, 1. This change would remove ALL the splash damage golis deal to the air, and thus their dps is reduced by lets say 75%. With a change like this players would not need to split vs golis (letting 30+ void rays get hit per missile making it more of a 90-95% dps decrease) It is also a huge buff to air in general since armour is great vs splash but used to be bad vs golis. So you would upgrade health against the golis which made u "weaker" vs the other mercs. But if u can build armour vs golis you counter all the other mercs as well, giving way stronger matchups across the board.

Oracle, great changes, well done! Not a fan of observer buff since i sorta dislike the unit. Would be nice if you could still snipe an observer without having it detect you (so that a few units surrounding an afk obs cant save it from all gh snipe attempts). As for medi, make it more punishing to lose it, why not. I think thats enough tho and the energy increase to 50 seems a bit much.

Merc comp change is kinda nice if ur next to cheeky excal going kerrigan =)

As for the ellite shop, this is a very drastic change.At first it sounds like the tank and pdd nerfs i've been dreaming of for years ^^. However, losing the medi sounds very bad though as it is so centric to sd play. Would make stalkers even stronger since they can take towers with blink. Losing the medi will become such a big deal that it wont make for fun gameplay. Losing such an essential unit at that point would just be frustrating and catastrophical.

Mostly good changes in this patch but i do get a bit concerned of this "harsh sd" vision. Sudden death is in pres viewed as the best and most intense part of the game. Trying to make the game end 10 minutes after sd would most likely scare away the pre community to other alternatives as sudden death play is what players join to play. Pubs do end in this time anyways so i'd highly suggest thoroughly discussing (which i know is the point of this thread ;) ) SD changes with the pre community before pushing them live, more so than other changes which affect pres and pubs.

Missing changes:
Ghost - Bring back old sniper training ups
Collo - bring back the old splash radius value making it actually relevant. Right now it is stronger to get merc attack than having a collo since it does not offer much farming at all. You could easily bring back the old collo now. Remember now we have strong ultimates and a nova which can 2 shot them with emp late game (lot easier for nova since the first emp has 100% shield drain, meaning that 2 nova emps deal 33% more damage than 4 gh emps).


Top
   
 Post subject: Re: Next Update 2.24x
PostPosted: 12 Jul 2019, 13:56 
Offline
Beta Tester
Beta Tester

Joined: 07 Jan 2017, 21:33
Posts: 163
This is my opinion:

Tychus and raynor:
Nice to buff, but I think its to small buff tho.

Base defense:
Increase the dmg on spine crawler instead of speed, so its a bit more elite/hero killer and not so similar to canon. Good to have 100% armor ignore. Seems more fair. If they need a buff overall im not so sure about. I more want to see a kinda good base and less in upgrades, so it save u if u need it but not helps to much for turtles. I also like the range buff for turrets, but do 4 instead of 3 idk if its need.


Merc:
Good about temple. About gols it seems to much right now. Maybe smth to look about when air rework is done. Hunter buff prob not need.

Elites:
Nice and fun buff for obs.
Isnt it to much nerf for oracle?
Banshee mb nice buff.

Medi:
I like the nerf about all units got 75% lose in hp. Medi is strong, but also this doesn't affect the skills so much. take 8 slots seems fair but it also a bit annoying because it takes more time to take out units to have room for a hero. About to make it cost double energy is maybe to much. I suggest to stay without this nerf.. its already enough nerf for it.

Heros:
Why make ability to 60s? it doesn't need a nerf in some way imo.

Ulti:
Better with faster hp regen, to make the game a bit faster. The other changes I need to see in action to set my opinion.

Arena shop:
It seems like some ppl miss the old one when turrets get killed by kill defense. Im not one of them. In public game ofc so we can make game shorter when its hardcore turtles. But in premades its no skill to go all in with crawlers, hk or air. and specially not in lags. I like it more at it is now. If we go this back 500 was way to cheap to kill everyones defense on the map. Maybe make it more cheap if less teams in games if its possible or a button there u can choose team u want to kill defense for.

SD:
I think I like this. Also maybe becouse kill merc comp and disable marines is kinda silly.

Merc location:
If im not wrong this works from one side and other side not? This seems good anyways.

Leaving team:
Seems rly fair and nice

Voting screen:
Less is more. sweet. And good to have options for 0, 1 and 2 saviors in a easy way to understand.

______________________________________

Air merc:
This prob need hard test first and fast patch updates after it to balance, but this is prob much better for the game in the end.

SD elite merc:
no pls! Maybe take out tanks and sentry so middle is more alive if someone is ahead. But also im not sure about it.


Top
   
 Post subject: Re: Next Update 2.24x
PostPosted: 12 Jul 2019, 15:28 
Offline
Newcomer
Newcomer
User avatar

Joined: 19 Feb 2019, 13:24
Posts: 72
Battle.net ID: Reformed#21996
I don't quite get why the betas are posting 'opinions' on these suggestions. Haven't it already been discussed before posting?


Top
   
 Post subject: Re: Next Update 2.24x
PostPosted: 12 Jul 2019, 16:00 
Offline
Beta Tester
Beta Tester

Joined: 07 Jan 2017, 21:33
Posts: 163
Reformed wrote: I don't quite get why the betas are posting 'opinions' on these suggestions. Haven't it already been discussed before posting?
Well.. All betas and raiden not always have same things in mind. That's why we discuse it open here too.


Top
   
 Post subject: Re: Next Update 2.24x
PostPosted: 12 Jul 2019, 16:57 
Offline
Newcomer
Newcomer

Joined: 02 Aug 2017, 22:23
Posts: 188
Battle.net ID: TPKpaul#2964
Eyyo wrote: First of all i need to adress the goliath nerf which everyone is sleeping on. This might be the most drastic nerf i have ever seen on a unit and should not ever go live as goliaths wont counter air any more after this change.
+1 Eyyo


Top
   
 Post subject: Re: Next Update 2.24x
PostPosted: 12 Jul 2019, 19:23 
Offline
Game Developer
Game Developer
User avatar

Joined: 03 Jan 2017, 19:03
Posts: 410
Battle.net ID: Raiden
Eyyo wrote: First of all i need to adress the goliath nerf which everyone is sleeping on. This might be the most drastic nerf i have ever seen on a unit and should not ever go live as goliaths wont counter air any more after this change.

The reason for this is splash fraction and armour mechanics. Goliaths have a splash fraction of 50% (while very high, it means that half the main damage is added to the sorrounding units as splash). With air being clumped up the vast majority of the damage dealt to them is splash damage, lets say every rocket hits 6 additional voidrays within its splash radius, that means the splash stands for 3/4ths of the dps. Due to armour scale being 50, a player on even bounty can get half as many armour ups as the enemy can get damage ups, on even bounty. Lets say enemy golis deal 40 damage, our voidrays have 20 armour. How it used to be is the main target gets hit for 20 and the 50% armour ignore allows for (40*50%)-(20*50%)= 10 splash damage per void ray. HOWEVER. If this change goes live and the armour penetration is removed, the splash damage would be 40*50% - 20 which is 0, or in MA's case, 1. This change would remove ALL the splash damage golis deal to the air, and thus their dps is reduced by lets say 75%. With a change like this players would not need to split vs golis (letting 30+ void rays get hit per missile making it more of a 90-95% dps decrease) It is also a huge buff to air in general since armour is great vs splash but used to be bad vs golis. So you would upgrade health against the golis which made u "weaker" vs the other mercs. But if u can build armour vs golis you counter all the other mercs as well, giving way stronger matchups across the board.

Oracle, great changes, well done! Not a fan of observer buff since i sorta dislike the unit. Would be nice if you could still snipe an observer without having it detect you (so that a few units surrounding an afk obs cant save it from all gh snipe attempts). As for medi, make it more punishing to lose it, why not. I think thats enough tho and the energy increase to 50 seems a bit much.

Merc comp change is kinda nice if ur next to cheeky excal going kerrigan =)

As for the ellite shop, this is a very drastic change.At first it sounds like the tank and pdd nerfs i've been dreaming of for years ^^. However, losing the medi sounds very bad though as it is so centric to sd play. Would make stalkers even stronger since they can take towers with blink. Losing the medi will become such a big deal that it wont make for fun gameplay. Losing such an essential unit at that point would just be frustrating and catastrophical.

Mostly good changes in this patch but i do get a bit concerned of this "harsh sd" vision. Sudden death is in pres viewed as the best and most intense part of the game. Trying to make the game end 10 minutes after sd would most likely scare away the pre community to other alternatives as sudden death play is what players join to play. Pubs do end in this time anyways so i'd highly suggest thoroughly discussing (which i know is the point of this thread ;) ) SD changes with the pre community before pushing them live, more so than other changes which affect pres and pubs.

Missing changes:
Ghost - Bring back old sniper training ups
Collo - bring back the old splash radius value making it actually relevant. Right now it is stronger to get merc attack than having a collo since it does not offer much farming at all. You could easily bring back the old collo now. Remember now we have strong ultimates and a nova which can 2 shot them with emp late game (lot easier for nova since the first emp has 100% shield drain, meaning that 2 nova emps deal 33% more damage than 4 gh emps).

Interesting suggestions and good detailed feedback.
Now for the Armor ignore on goliaths, that's not actually how it works, a unit is able to do AoE damage even without any armor ignore percentage.
Armor is one of the most expensive upgrades, having a mechanic that "ignores a % of these upgrades" and making the player look like wasted minerals by upgrading armor, is a mechanic I don't want to have for Marine Arena.
I prefer to buff other values for the units that had armor ignore (attack, health, scale, etc.) instead of keeping armor ignore on them.

Well, when an SD mechanic is implemented into a game, this clearly as most understand means that the game is going to end soon when SD occurs.
While I see what you mean about the "intense moments", having an SD which can take from 15 minutes to 60+ minutes in order to finish the game, makes this SD not working properly as it should.
I know there's players that enjoy having 2h or even 3h games, some even had much longer games when SD wasn't working at all.
The option to play a "NO-SD" game is there and can be selected at anytime in order to enjoy longer games.
But, games with SD lasting so many hours and to often is not something good, if this scenario was 1 time every 50 games, wouldn't bother changing anything, but this is 1 time every 2 games, and this is something we need to look it up.

Elite mercenary shop change on SD is something that its not even implemented, so for sure it wont come on the next update, we still gather feedback about it, and might not be added at all as a change.

Based on all feedback, changes will be done and topic will be updated.

_________________
You think that you are able to catch a lightning?
I'd love to see you try!


Top
   
 Post subject: Re: Next Update 2.24x
PostPosted: 13 Jul 2019, 07:45 
Offline
Newcomer
Newcomer

Joined: 25 Feb 2019, 17:44
Posts: 22
Battle.net ID: 1881
"The option to play a "NO-SD" game is there and can be selected at anytime"
But SD is interesting because you are forced to hold towers and middle. This is the most active part of the game. Thats why we love it.

Plaing with NO SD is completely different thing as it doesnt force you to be active and I think this is the point you are missing.

If you want to make it faster - maybe increase spawn rates after SD, increase the ammount of the money you get for holding mid or make it not every 10 sec but every 5?
This change will make it faster without damaging the skillbased part.


Top
   
 Post subject: Re: Next Update 2.24x
PostPosted: 13 Jul 2019, 15:54 
Offline
Beta Tester
Beta Tester

Joined: 11 Nov 2017, 00:46
Posts: 137
Battle.net ID: ExCaL#2981
kruger wrote:
"The option to play a "NO-SD" game is there and can be selected at anytime"
But SD is interesting because you are forced to hold towers and middle. This is the most active part of the game. Thats why we love it.

Plaing with NO SD is completely different thing as it doesnt force you to be active and I think this is the point you are missing.

If you want to make it faster - maybe increase spawn rates after SD, increase the ammount of the money you get for holding mid or make it not every 10 sec but every 5?
This change will make it faster without damaging the skillbased part.

+1000


Top
   
 Post subject: Re: Next Update 2.24x
PostPosted: 16 Jul 2019, 00:15 
Offline
Newcomer
Newcomer

Joined: 15 Jul 2019, 17:53
Posts: 29
Battle.net ID: Stardeffend#2995
Marines:
Tychus & Raynor, seems nice, would be great to have an alternative to double spawn!

Mercs:
+ Temple Zealots
- Goliaths, might be too weak

Elie Mecenaries:
Observer, love that change, was waiting for it!

At the moment I get Oracles and Banshees for the same reason - farm
But the benefit for the Banshees is, it doesn't need energy to attack... To snipe Elites, Heroes and to escape the Oracle is way better... I really want to see a rework here, so only one of these two units is mostly there to farm and to nerf the farm option, but buff the Elites/Hero sniping potential of the other unit.

I like the 75% health loss with the medic diving and increasing the risk with using it! The Energy Requirement to load elites/heros seemed fine to me and the change would be an overkill.

Heroes:
With the Phoenix I feel the same way like the Banshee and Oracle... It is a anti hero hero and able to get a lot of farm... I liked the nerf, when the phoenix wasn't able to attack ground - so it has only the sniping role, and with a buff to that I think it would be great! Or nerf the anti Hero Option (like let recall lifted targets)

General Gameplay Changes:
I don't like the Disable Marine Spawning going away... It gets only used after sudden death and adds a strategic option, one thing that separates the great from the good players...

With the Compound location, a gh (also 7 range) is NOT able to attack the compounds from the side high ground... so the Ultimates have a longer range and adjusting that to 7 should be fine (or increasing the gh range as well)

I cannot agree to remove the Elite Merc Shop at any time, it gives a lot of strategic opportunities to the players. So the best can shine! But I like the Idea behind it - maybe increasing the income from holding mid would achieve that result as well.


Top
   
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic  Reply to topic  [ 21 posts ]  Go to page Previous 1 2 3 Next

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Limited
Theme Created by HOLLYSMOKE
Theme updated to phpBB 3.1.3 by KamijouTouma